1 2 3 TORONTO COMPUTER LEASING INQUIRY 4 5 6 7 ******************** 8 9 10 BEFORE: THE HONOURABLE MADAM JUSTICE DENISE BELLAMY, 11 COMMISSIONER 12 13 14 15 16 Held at: East York Civic Centre 17 850 Coxwell Avenue 18 Toronto, Ontario 19 M4C 5R1 20 21 ******************** 22 23 24 January 28th, 2003 25

2
  1                        APPEARANCES
  2  Ronald Manes            )Commission Counsel 
  3  Patrick Moore  (np)     )
  4  Daina Groskaufmanis     ) 
  5  Linda Rothstein         )City of Toronto 
  6  Lily Harmer    (np)     )
  7  Robert Centa            )
  8  Gordon Capern  (np)     )
  9  David Moore             )MFP 
 10  Fraser Berrill (np)     ) 
 11  Ken Jones      (np)     ) 
 12  Brian Heller   (np)     )Ball Hsu and Associates Ltd.
 13  Melissa Kronick (np)    )CUPE 
 14  Raj Anand (np)          )Lana Viinamae
 15  Bay Ryley               )
 16  William Anderson        )Wanda Liczyk
 17  Valerie Dyer   (np)     )Dell Computers
 18  Jennifer Lynch (np)     )
 19  Edward Greenspan (np)   )Jeff Lyons
 20  Todd White (np)         )
 21  Hugh MacKenzie          )Jim Andrew
 22  Paul Cavalluzzo         )Dash Domi
 23  Benjamin Barnes (np)    )
 24  
 25  Joyce Ihamaki           )Registrar

1 TABLE OF CONTENTS 2 Page 3 4 DASH DOMI, Resumed 5 Continued Examination-in-Chief 6 by Mr. Ronald Manes 5 7 8 Certificate of Transcript 132 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25

1 EXHIBITS 2 No. Description Page 3 4 Note: Addition to Exhibit 14, 5 Volume 1, Tab 35. 6 Expense summary: Dash Domi 7 prepared by Commission 8 Counsel updated on the 27th 9 of January 2003. 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25

1 --- Upon commencing at 10:00 a.m. 2 3 THE REGISTRAR: The inquiry is now in 4 session. Please be seated. 5 6 DASHNOR DOMI, Resumed: 7 8 MADAM COMMISSIONER: Good morning. 9 THE WITNESS: Morning. 10 MR. RONALD MANES: Good morning, Commissioner. 11 12 (BRIEF PAUSE) 13 14 CONTINUED EXAMINATION-IN-CHIEF BY MR. RONALD MANES: 15 Q: Just some matters of housekeeping first. 16 Did you, Mr. Domi, manage to locate your resume? 17 A: No, I'm sorry, I have not. I thought I'd 18 check with HR at the office perhaps, but I don't have it at 19 my home, anyway. 20 Q: All right. You haven't -- it's possible 21 that HR has it? 22 A: They may have it at the office. 23 Q: All right. If you could check that? 24 A: Yes, sure. 25 Q: Give them a call or your Counsel can do

1 that. 2 MR. RONALD MANES: Second Commissioner, 3 Commission Counsel has prepared a new expense summary. I've 4 handed up a copy to you and that expense summary was updated 5 on January 27th, 2003 and it contains all of Mr. Domi's 6 expenses according to MFP, including what we've termed the 7 redacted and the unredacted expenses. 8 So, that we should have here a complete 9 picture of all the expenses for Mr. Domi, both that relate to 10 the City of Toronto and those that we don't know whether or 11 not they related to the City of Toronto, depending on how you 12 read these entries. 13 MADAM COMMISSIONER: Okay. So, initially, as 14 I understand it, when the expenses were put in as an exhibit, 15 the MFP had given to Commission Counsel all of Mr. Domi's 16 expenses and then had just taken out, for purposes of the 17 Inquiry any expenses that did not have the name, City of 18 Toronto on it. 19 MR. RONALD MANES: Yes, that appeared 20 irrelevant. 21 MADAM COMMISSIONER: And appeared to be 22 irrelevant to the Inquiry. And now, it appears that they 23 may, in fact, be relevant so MFP has put them all back in, as 24 it were. 25 MR. RONALD MANES: That's right. They may or

1 may not be relevant -- 2 MADAM COMMISSIONER: Right -- 3 MR. RONALD MANES: -- we don't know, but, so if 4 we put them all back in -- 5 MADAM COMMISSIONER: Okay. 6 MR. RONALD MANES: -- and I thank Mr. Domi's 7 Counsel, Mr. Cavalluzzo, and of course, Mr. Moore for -- from 8 MFP because it was a considerable job to get all that 9 material -- 10 MADAM COMMISSIONER: Okay. 11 MR. RONALD MANES: -- together. 12 MADAM COMMISSIONER: Well, I'm grateful to 13 Mr. Moore and to Mr. Cavalluzzo for having cooperated and 14 putting all of this together. Thank you. 15 All right. 16 MR. RONALD MANES: Now, I purpose that we 17 mark the updated expense summary prepared by Commission 18 Counsel as Tab 33, 34 to Volume 1 of Mr. Nigro's documents. 19 MADAM COMMISSIONER: Of the expenses? 20 MR. RONALD MANES: No, I'm putting it -- 21 MADAM COMMISSIONER: Where are you putting 22 it? 23 MR. RONALD MANES: I'm putting it in Mr. 24 Nigro's documents. 25 MADAM COMMISSIONER: Oh, I see. Mr. Domi's?

1 MR. RONALD MANES: Oh, Mr. Domi's, yes. 2 MADAM COMMISSIONER: 35? Tab 35. 3 THE WITNESS: Commissioner, may I use a pen 4 here or no? 5 MADAM COMMISSIONER: Is that the one -- Mr. 6 Manes? Mr. Manes? 7 MR. RONALD MANES: Yes. 8 MADAM COMMISSIONER: Can I have your 9 attention here please? Mr. Domi's just asking if he can use 10 a pen on -- on these and I don't know if -- if this is -- if 11 this is one that is for our Exhibit books or -- why don't we 12 just -- it's not very big. We'll just get another one for 13 our exhibit book. 14 Feel free to mark it up as much as you'd like. 15 THE WITNESS: Okay. 16 THE REGISTRAR: So that's Tab 35. 17 MADAM COMMISSIONER: Okay. Tab 35, thanks. 18 MR. RONALD MANES: If I might have a moment. 19 20 (BRIEF PAUSE) 21 22 CONTINUED BY MR. RONALD MANES: 23 Q: Mr. Domi, Mr. Rollock was your immediate 24 superior when you were -- when Ms. Payne was at R -- at MFP 25 before she left?

1 A: Yes. 2 Q: And you would submit your expense 3 accounts to Mr. Rollock? 4 A: Correct. I believe I did that at the 5 time, yes. 6 MADAM COMMISSIONER: I -- you mean you're not 7 sure? 8 THE WITNESS: Yeah, I -- I -- Commissioner, 9 it's just kind of -- I don't know if it went directly to Mr. 10 Rollock or Ms. Vivaldo or I can't recall at the time back 11 then what was happening. 12 13 CONTINUED BY MR. RONALD MANES: 14 Q: Well, from your own observations or your 15 own knowledge, did you ever see Mr. Rollock go through your 16 expenses -- 17 A: No. 18 Q: -- or expense summaries? 19 A: No. 20 Q: Were you ever in his presence when you 21 gave him -- 22 A: Yes. 23 Q: -- the expense summary and did you ever 24 see him sign off on it? 25 A: I believe so, yes.

1 Q: And at the time that you saw him sign off 2 on it, did you see him go through those expense summaries? 3 A: No. 4 Q: So is it your evidence that you -- on 5 occasion, that you can remember, gave Mr. Rollock the expense 6 summaries and he signed off on it without reviewing it? 7 A: Well, I -- I -- he -- I can't recall him 8 reviewing it. He may have but I just -- I can't recall 9 really back then. 10 Q: Well, I -- I take it that it was your 11 impression that when you submitted these expense summaries, 12 they were not going to be reviewed? 13 MR. DAVID MOORE: Well, I -- I -- I don't 14 know where that evidence comes from. I don't know if that's 15 a fair question at all. 16 MADAM COMMISSIONER: I think maybe, Mr. 17 Manes, that in this area it would be better if you didn't put 18 such a leading question to the witness. 19 20 CONTINUED BY MR. RONALD MANES: 21 Q: When you submitted your expense summaries 22 generally, whether it was to Mr. Rollock or whomever, were -- 23 did you have the impression as to whether these expense 24 summaries were going to be reviewed? 25 A: I don't know.

1 Q: You've given some evidence both today and 2 previously about occasions where you would give Mr. Flanagan 3 your expense summaries -- 4 A: Yes. 5 Q: -- and he would simply sign off on them 6 without reviewing -- 7 MADAM COMMISSIONER: I think that was Mr. 8 Nigro, not Mr. Domi. 9 MR. RONALD MANES: Am I -- 10 MR. DAVID MOORE: That's right and there was 11 absolutely no specificity whatsoever to the -- 12 MR. RONALD MANES: I apologize for that. 13 MADAM COMMISSIONER: It doesn't matter if it 14 was as -- he's got the wrong witness, so it doesn't matter. 15 MR. DAVID MOORE: No, that's right. 16 MADAM COMMISSIONER: And that was Mr. Nigro, 17 Mr. Manes. 18 MR. RONALD MANES: Yes, I'm sorry. All right. 19 20 CONTINUED BY MR. RONALD MANES: 21 Q: On occasion, where you submitted to Mr. 22 Flanagan, were there any occasions that you submitted 23 personally your expense summary to Mr. Flanagan? 24 A: I don't know who I submitted them to 25 really, at the time. They may have went to accounting, but I

1 may have submitted some to Mike Flanagan. 2 Q: All right. On any occasion where you 3 submitted it to Mr. Flanagan, do you remember whether Mr. 4 Flanagan reviewed your expense summary or not? 5 A: I do not remember, no. 6 Q: All right. On any occasion where you 7 submitted your expense summary to anyone, do you remember 8 whether anyone in your presence reviewed your expense 9 summary? 10 A: Not in my presence no, not that I can 11 recall. 12 Q: All right. According to our review of 13 these expense summaries and either you can help this or Mr. 14 Moore or Mr. Cavalluzzo can help us. 15 It -- up to about March of 2000, it was a very 16 rare occurrence where there was no notation on your Visa slip 17 which you submitted as part of your expense summary, but 18 after that, there is frequently, if not almost all the time 19 that there is no notation on your Visa slip. 20 Assuming that's right, was there any change in 21 pattern or reason for changing a pattern of putting names on 22 your Visa up to March of 2000, and then after that, just not 23 attributing any names on that -- on your Visa? 24 A: Actually there was -- there was really no 25 particular reason for it, no, that I can think of.

1 Q: Was there discussions with Mr. Pessione at 2 that time, in or about March of 1999 -- March of 2000, about 3 changing your pattern? 4 A: Actually, I can't recall. 5 Q: All right. 6 MADAM COMMISSIONER: Mr. Manes, I think -- did 7 you just say March 1999. 8 MR. RONALD MANES: And I corrected myself, 9 March of 2000. 10 MADAM COMMISSIONER: So, which is it? Is it 11 March '99 or March 2000? 12 MR. RONALD MANES: March 2000. 13 MADAM COMMISSIONER: 2000. Thank you. 14 So, are you saying from the time, Mr. Domi 15 started in November '98 up until March 2000, there are 16 notations on the Visa, and after March 2000, there are no 17 notations? 18 MR. RONALD MANES: Yes, almost without 19 exception -- 20 MADAM COMMISSIONER: Okay. 21 MR. RONALD MANES: -- there's a few 22 exceptions, but, after March of 2000, there, I believe it's 23 mid-March of 2000, then that pattern changes. 24 MADAM COMMISSIONER: Okay. 25 MR. DAVID MOORE: We haven't -- I haven't

1 checked that analysis. I wasn't aware of the detail of that 2 question, but, we'll check it and if there's any issue about 3 that, we'll advise. 4 But I'm not in a position to take Mr. Manes up 5 on his invitation to comment because I wasn't aware that that 6 was going to be put to this witness. 7 MR. RONALD MANES: I'm happy that that be 8 confirmed by Mr. Moore and/or Mr. Cavalluzzo. 9 10 CONTINUED BY MR. RONALD MANES: 11 Q: Now, we've as well, tried to categorize 12 these receipts and expense reports and let's categorize them 13 like this and see if you can tell me whether you agree or 14 disagree. 15 And again, Mr. Moore or Mr. Cavalluzzo can 16 confirm or -- or -- or not. 17 MR. DAVID MOORE: Well, I can tell in advance 18 -- 19 MADAM COMMISSIONER: Mr. Manes -- 20 MR. DAVID MOORE: -- that I won't be -- 21 MADAM COMMISSIONER: -- have you had any to 22 opportunity to speak with Mr. Cavalluzzo or Mr. -- 23 MR. RONALD MANES: On -- 24 MADAM COMMISSIONER: -- or Mr. Moore in 25 advance to just --

1 MR. RONALD MANES: No, on this particular -- 2 these categories, I referred to these yesterday already, and 3 I'm going to refer to the -- refer to them again today and 4 there -- be it no surprise to My Friends in terms of the 5 categories. 6 MR. DAVID MOORE: Well, but what -- I -- I -- 7 I don't know what analysis My Friend is going to advert to. 8 I'm not aware of the analysis. I guess I'll have to wait and 9 see but I'll tell you in advance, I think it's highly 10 unlikely that I'm going to be in a position to, again, take 11 Mr. Manes up on his invitation to comment. I'll reserve my 12 right to do so, one -- once I -- once I hear what these -- 13 what this analysis is. 14 MR. RONALD MANES: Well, if there's -- als -- 15 MADAM COMMISSIONER: We're going to have a 16 hard time getting started today. It's almost quarter after 17 and -- so if -- if you -- let's see what Mr. Manes' 18 categories are and then if there are any problems with that, 19 if you need a break to discuss that, let me know and I'll -- 20 I'm quite happy to have that break for you. 21 All right? Mr. Manes. 22 23 CONTINUED BY MR. RONALD MANES: 24 Q: Some of the receipts and claims for 25 expenses list all persons that were in your presence?

1 A: Right. 2 Q: That's the first category. Some receipts 3 include persons who are not in your presence. 4 A: Correct. 5 Q: And some receipts have no entry on them 6 and in those re -- respects, those receipts would be given to 7 Mr. Pessione and Mr. Pessione would, to use your word 8 yesterday, arbitrarily assign a file or a client. 9 A: Correct. 10 Q: All right. Now, I don't know if there's 11 any other categories but those are the three (3) that I'm 12 going to work with with the witness. 13 Now, if Mr. Moore or Mr. Cavalluzzo want to 14 think about that and take you up on the brief adjournment in 15 that regard, I'm quite happy to do that. This is a 16 particularly difficult situation that we've all been 17 presented and I want to be as fair as I can in terms of the 18 witness assisting us to determine how much MFP spent on 19 entertaining City of Toronto. 20 MR. DAVID MOORE: Well -- well, you know, the 21 particularly different situation has been -- been known for 22 months that -- that it was not going to be possible to 23 precisely reconstruct how much was spent entertaining City of 24 Toronto clients. 25 I mean, there were a number of categories, six

1 (6) or seven (7) that I think I went through with Mr. 2 Wolfraim in his cross-examination that illustrated that 3 point. There's nothing new about that point. It's been 4 known for some time. 5 So -- so, that said, the -- the -- the very 6 first category My Friend refers to as receipts that list all 7 persons who were in attendance. I'm not sure there are 8 necessarily any in that category. There may be some but it's 9 very hard to tell. I -- I don't know how that's been broken 10 down. 11 For example, I don't believe that he's 12 necessarily indicated if there's more than one M -- MFP 13 person in attendance. But -- but in any event, I -- I'm -- I 14 guess My Friend can proceed. It's going to be, I suspect, 15 exceedingly difficult for the witness to -- to -- to -- to 16 deal with these categories. 17 MADAM COMMISSIONER: Well, my -- my -- 18 MS. LINDA ROTHSTEIN: Commissioner, can I -- 19 can I just interrupt for one second? I don't have -- the 20 City's certainly not interested in having an in-depth inquiry 21 into which receipt is properly allocated to City of Toronto 22 or not -- 23 MADAM COMMISSIONER: I was about to say -- 24 MS. LINDA ROTHSTEIN: -- at the end of the 25 day --

1 MADAM COMMISSIONER: I was about to say that 2 I have no interest -- 3 MS. LINDA ROTHSTEIN: Yeah. 4 MADAM COMMISSIONER: -- in going through 5 every single one of these receipts. 6 MS. LINDA ROTHSTEIN: Exactly, but that said, 7 Commissioner, I do at this stage want to say that I think it 8 would be helpful to hear from Mr. Domi himself as to what he 9 can tell you based on all of the investigations, his 10 discussion with his own Counsel, his discussion with Mr. 11 Moore, Mr. Manes. 12 I'd like to hear myself from Mr. Domi what he 13 can honestly assist you with and then if we need to do some 14 further clarification, so be it but it would be interesting 15 finally to hear from this witness what he can tell you based 16 on his own recollection of these events. 17 MADAM COMMISSIONER: Mr. Cavalluzzo, did you 18 have anything you wanted to say? 19 MR. PAUL CAVALLUZZO: Yeah. 20 MADAM COMMISSIONER: You don't have to, I'm 21 just -- 22 MR. PAUL CAVALLUZZO: No, no. I would like 23 to. The problem, of course, with all the categorizations is 24 that it simplifies the matter beyond what it should be. 25 For example, in respect of category 2 includes

1 persons not there. Well, the witness is clear that if the 2 person wasn't there, the person was being discussed or being 3 pursued, so, I'm certainly not accepting these 4 categorizations. 5 But I agree with Counsel for the City that Mr. 6 Domi has been on the stand for three (3), we're going on to 7 four (4) days, and I would -- from his perspective, he's a 8 witness who has never testified before in his life. 9 And I'd like to expedite this as much as we 10 possibly could, so that maybe we could finish it this week. 11 MADAM COMMISSIONER: All right. Well, the 12 difficulty, I guess, is that there are pages and pages of 13 expenses, as one (1) would expect from a salesperson in Mr. 14 Domi's capacity. 15 I don't think that the Toronto ratepayers or 16 taxpayers have an interest in having the Inquiry spend a week 17 or however many days it would take, going through every 18 single detail of Mr. Domi's expenses. 19 However, I am tasked with the obligation under 20 my terms of reference, of looking at how this situation came 21 to be and one (1) of the issues that has come up, is whether 22 there was an undue amount of entertaining of City officials 23 that might have put them in the position, that might have 24 created a difficulty for them in appearing to be objective. 25 So, in order to do that, at this stage, where

1 we are, is we have Mr. Domi's evidence and Mr. Nigro's 2 evidence that a number of the people who they say were 3 entertained were, in fact, not physically entertained. 4 And we also have the perception that has been 5 created that there's been an inordinate amount of 6 entertainment. 7 So, I think what I would like to get down to 8 with Mr. Domi as the main person to do this with, is to get 9 some sense of how much entertainment was actually done with 10 people from the City, and how much was not. 11 So, to the extent that we can do that, if we 12 can do it with some categorizations that everyone can agree 13 with, that's fine. If we can't, I just would like to find 14 some way to do it, so we're not having to go through every 15 single expense. 16 Now, Mr. Cavalluzzo and Mr. Moore and Ms. 17 Rothstein and anyone else who wants, would it be worth the 18 Inquiry's while for you to spend the next fifteen (15) or 19 thirty (30) minutes, just talking about whether there are 20 categorizations or not? 21 If not, let's just carry on and just get 22 cracking here and get Mr. Domi off the stand, as quickly as 23 Mr. Cavalluzzo would like him to be off the stand. 24 But, I'm in the situation where, at the end of 25 the day, I have to decide whether there was an undue amount

1 of entertainment that might have put the public servants in 2 the situation where they might be seen to be swayed, or to 3 have been possibly swayed as a result. 4 And that's all I'm trying to get. I don't 5 actually care who Mr. Domi entertained that has nothing to do 6 with the City. I have no interest in it, and I know nobody 7 else does either. So, any suggestions? 8 MR. RONALD MANES: Well, I have spoken with 9 both, Mr. Cavalluzzo and Mr. Moore, yesterday about getting 10 together with, at least Mr. Domi and going through these and 11 trying to determine whether there were categories or expenses 12 that we could clearly identify as a particular group, or City 13 of Toronto, in particular. 14 I'm happy to do that right now. 15 MADAM COMMISSIONER: Well, I understand from 16 Mr. Domi that he doesn't actually -- I think I heard Mr. Domi 17 say, he doesn't really remember whether they all were or not, 18 or maybe that was Mr. Nigro. 19 THE WITNESS: Commissioner, I have no idea 20 what categories or how they could be categorized. I -- I 21 have no idea how that could be done. 22 I -- my expenses was a tool, like I said many 23 times, being able to understand people, them understand me, 24 never for a second, did I ever -- the word undue influence or 25 whatever has been used, many times over the course of the

1 Inquiry. 2 I never expected anyone to do anything 3 different then they -- they should do, ultimately. That's 4 just how I feel but my expenses, they are what they are and 5 it was my entire effort in sales and marketing for my company 6 and that's -- that's the only way I can sum it up. 7 Not just the City of Toronto, obviously. I 8 mean, I meet with -- I've met hundreds of people since 9 November of '98 so that's all I can say about that really. 10 Yeah. 11 MR. RONALD MANES: Can we take a -- a fifteen 12 (15) minute adjournment and I'll -- I'll speak with Counsel 13 and see -- having regard to the fact that Mr. Domi clearly 14 can't be expected to -- to know and recollect all these 15 expenses, see if we can get some categories and approach 16 where we can get done with this -- get done with this issue. 17 MR. DAVID MOORE: I'm quite prepared to 18 proceed on that basis. I must say I -- I wasn't aware that 19 that invitation that extended last night. We had a brief 20 discussion, there may have been some misunderstanding but I 21 wasn't aware of that suggestion having been made but I'm 22 quite happy to take My Friend up on it. 23 MADAM COMMISSIONER: Okay. Well, why don't 24 we -- why don't we do that for a while, mindful of the fact 25 that ultimately I have to make findings of credibility.

23
  1                 All right and so at some point I do want to
  2  hear from Mr. Domi on -- on -- on the -- on expenses.  
  3                 All right.  We'll break -- you let me know.  I
  4  won't hold you to fifteen (15) minutes in case you need
  5  seventeen (17) or twenty-three (23) but I'd rather that we
  6  not take too much longer on this.
  7                 So let's say -- let's aim for twenty (20) --
  8  for quarter to which gives you twenty (20) minutes and if
  9  that's a problem then come to me and let me know.
 10                 MR. RONALD MANES:   Thank you, Commissioner.
 11                 THE REGISTRAR:   The Inquiry will adjourn for
 12  twenty (20) -- quarter to 11:00.
 13  
 14  --- Upon recessing at 10:24 a.m.
 15  
 16  --- Upon resuming at 2:00 p.m.
 17  
 18                 THE REGISTRAR:   Order.  The Inquiry will
 19  resume, please be seated.
 20  
 21                       (BRIEF PAUSE)
 22  
 23                 MADAM COMMISSIONER:   Well, Mr. Manes, we took
 24  longer than I had initially anticipated, and I gather that
 25  while we were having a break a bunch of you were working to

1 get the expenses done in a different format, so, I'm hoping 2 that this has now been resolved, and that by having taken 3 that time this morning, we've cut down the amount of time the 4 Inquiry will last, by a good three (3) weeks? No? 5 MR. RONALD MANES: Well, a good period of 6 time, but guaranteed it will be -- it will be cut down as -- 7 MADAM COMMISSIONER: All right. 8 MR. RONALD MANES: -- counsel has met and 9 counsel discussed the issue and have resolved to approach the 10 matter this way, and -- and it is the way that I will 11 recommend to you, Commissioner. 12 Commission Counsel have selected out all of 13 the receipts that relate, and are embossed to say, to City of 14 Toronto. And in particular, with respect to individuals, so 15 that we have now made lists that relate to the entertaining 16 according to the receipts of Mr. Nigro, Mr. Jakobek, Ms. 17 Liczyk, Mr. Andrew, Rob Godfrey and Paul Godfrey, and in that 18 regard, I've included the Toronto Sun, that that may or may 19 not be right, but the witness will look at those receipts. 20 And Mr. Lyons, and Mr. Danson presented somewhat of a problem 21 and I will report that out later. 22 Now, this, we have agreed, does not represent 23 all of the entertaining regarding the City of Toronto, for 24 two (2) reasons, first of all, some of the entertaining may 25 be in the marketing budget, as opposed to an expense, for

1 example, the tickets to the games. 2 Secondly, not all of the entertaining of the 3 City related people were noted by name, or otherwise, on 4 these receipts. So, for example, and we've covered some of 5 this already, Ms. Viinamae, Ms. Bulko, Ms. Leggieri, Ms. 6 Marks, may not be listed on a receipt, there may not be any 7 other documentary evidence of entertainment, but the witness 8 has testified earlier that there was some, for example, 9 hockey games that those people may have attended. 10 I will ask the witness then after going 11 through the -- the specific entries that I've mentioned, any 12 other entertaining regarding the City of Toronto, and -- and 13 give him names that we know there was some at least. 14 I will ask Mr. Domi about then any other 15 entertaining the City of Toronto, whether it be Councillors 16 or staff, or -- or otherwise. 17 And then I'm going to -- I have asked Mr. 18 Cavalluzzo just to speak with Mr. Domi to review all of the 19 entries from March 16th, 2000 and on, that simply have COT or 20 City of Toronto on the expense forms, and nothing -- there is 21 nothing on the receipts. And those are the ones that 22 according to the witness' evidence, Mr. Pessione would assign 23 a name to. 24 I'm going to ask the witness simply to go 25 through those and see if any of those he has a recollection,

1 so, if he could share that with us. 2 There are certain critical entries, obviously, 3 that I'm going to examine Mr. Domi about closely, and for 4 example, hockey games in Montreal, Philadelphia, Ottawa, 5 which is not listed on his expenses, but we have a cancelled 6 cheque for that, and a few other of the expenses that on 7 their face I -- I have questions about. 8 Then after that I intend to take Mr. Domi to - 9 - after the expenses are completed I will then complete by 10 asking some miscellaneous questions, including the 11 discussions that he had with Mr. Balkissoon and some other 12 matters. 13 MADAM COMMISSIONER: Okay. 14 MR. RONALD MANES: So -- 15 MADAM COMMISSIONER: Just before we proceed 16 then, you mentioned that with respect to Lana Viinamae, 17 Katherine Bulko and Paula Leggieri and Ms. Marks, that the 18 witnesses testified that they were at hockey games or there 19 were hockey games that they may have attended. 20 My notes say that when you asked Mr. Domi 21 about that, he said they may have or he believed that he had. 22 So, I think if we're not sure about that, then we better get 23 some questions on that, even though it looks like you're not 24 going to be going into it, because Mr. Nigro said he had 25 seen them there, but this witness has not gone as far as

1 you've just indicated here. 2 MR. RONALD MANES: I'm quite prepared to 3 accept your notes, it's my recollection was that in relation 4 to Ms. Viinamae, there was a particular number, but I'm happy 5 to start out with a clean slate and let the witness testify 6 to the best of his recollection. 7 MADAM COMMISSIONER: Probably by the time you 8 get to them, it will be the end of the day anyway and we can 9 check the transcript. So, I'm just going by my notes, not 10 by the transcript and I think he said, he believed he had, 11 which I don't take to be the same as, yes, I did. 12 MR. RONALD MANES: All right. 13 MADAM COMMISSIONER: Okay. 14 All right. 15 Now, before Mr. Manes goes on, I just want to 16 make sure the Counsel are in accord with this? 17 I don't hear any objections, okay? 18 MR. DAVID MOORE: The only comment that I make 19 is that the expense sheets -- you may hear in evidence from 20 other sources that may put into question whether some of 21 these are accurate, or not, but, that's -- 22 MADAM COMMISSIONER: Okay -- 23 MR. DAVID MOORE: -- I think the way Mr. Manes 24 described it, is the way we've all concluded is the best way 25 to do it.

1 MADAM COMMISSIONER: All right. 2 3 (BRIEF PAUSE) 4 5 MADAM COMMISSIONER: Mr. Manes? 6 7 CONTINUED BY MR. RONALD MANES: 8 Q: Mr. Domi -- 9 MADAM COMMISSIONER: Just before -- sorry Mr. 10 Manes, before we go on, this morning, you had provided me 11 with something called the expense summary of Dash Domi, and 12 it was Tab 35. 13 Is that still -- does that still remain? 14 MR. RONALD MANES: That would remain. 15 MADAM COMMISSIONER: Okay. 16 MR. RONALD MANES: But this is more focused -- 17 MADAM COMMISSIONER: Right -- 18 MR. RONALD MANES: -- on individuals and -- 19 MADAM COMMISSIONER: -- I just wanted to know 20 whether I needed to get rid of it, or not. 21 MR. RONALD MANES: Yes, that would remain and 22 there are -- Mr. Domi let me confirm that you have in front 23 of you and Commissioner, there are summaries -- this is re: 24 quote "Domi expenses regarding Mr. Jakobek, Mr. Andrew, the 25 Godfrey family, because we could not distinguish those

1 between R. and P., Ms. Liczyk, Mr. Nigro and Mr. Lyons. 2 You should have all those in front of you and 3 we intend to mark those in -- as the next Exhibit, but we 4 don't want to assign a number to it -- a number to it yet, to 5 determine in which volume it's going to go, if we can put it 6 in a volume. 7 MADAM COMMISSIONER: Okay. 8 MR. RONALD MANES: Should it be Exhibit 16, 9 Registrar or 15? 10 THE REGISTRAR: It should be Exhibit 15. 11 MADAM COMMISSIONER: If it's an exhibit, as 12 opposed to being placed into the book. Ms. Groskaufmanis? 13 MS. DAINA GROSKAUFAMANIS: I think it may be 14 easier to place it into one (1) of Mr. Domi's books. 15 MADAM COMMISSIONER: Okay. 16 MS. DAINA GROSKAUFAMANIS: My only concern 17 about assigning it a tab number right now, is that I know the 18 last day we received additional documents to put into Mr. 19 Domi's book from Ms. Ryley and -- 20 MADAM COMMISSIONER: All right. 21 MS. DAINA GROSKAUFAMANIS: So, it may be 22 simpler to sort out the tab number tomorrow, once we have 23 those documents organized. 24 MADAM COMMISSIONER: Thank you. 25 All right.

1 Let's get cracking. 2 MR. RONALD MANES: All right. 3 4 CONTINUED BY MR. RONALD MANES: 5 Q: All right. Were you put in front of you 6 Domi expenses re: Tom Jakobek -- 7 A: Okay. 8 Q: Now all of these '99 expenses that are 9 listed are in Volume 1, so put Volume 1 of Domi expenses in 10 front of you. 11 A: Okay. 12 Q: And the way we'll do this, Mr. Domi, is -- 13 we'll go through those receipts -- 14 A: Okay. 15 Q: -- you can look at the receipts -- 16 A: Okay. 17 Q: How we got to -- 18 MADAM COMMISSIONER: These are 1999, not '99 19 expenses. 20 MR. RONALD MANES: '99 receipts, yes. And 21 then you can give your best recollection of that 22 entertainment. 23 THE WITNESS: Okay. 24 25 CONTINUED BY MR. RONALD MANES:

1 Q: Now, Volume 1, Tab 13, Begdoc 25526, 2 3 (BRIEF PAUSE) 4 5 Q: This is in the amount of fifty-six 6 dollars and ninety-two cents ($56.92). Mr. Domi, is that 7 your signature there? 8 A: Yes. 9 Q: All right and you have written names at 10 the bottom, could you say for the record what those names 11 are? 12 A: It just says City of Toronto, Tom 13 Jakobek. 14 Q: All right. Now, just for the purpose of 15 -- of accuracy, it says City T.O.? 16 A: It looks that way, yes. 17 Q: All right and then Tom Jakobek. 18 A: Correct. 19 Q: Now, do you know just by looking at that 20 receipt, are you able to -- to tell where -- what this was 21 for? 22 A: No. I don't see anything on there, no. 23 MADAM COMMISSIONER: Is that's -- is this 24 your writing, City TO and Tom -- 25 THE WITNESS: Yes.

1 MADAM COMMISSIONER: -- Jakobek. That's you? 2 3 (BRIEF PAUSE) 4 5 CONTINUED BY MR. RONALD MANES: 6 Q: Mr. Domi, maybe I can -- I can help you 7 just ... 8 9 (BRIEF PAUSE) 10 11 Q: 9:51 a.m. 12 A: Okay. 13 Q: February 23rd, '99. I think that's as 14 well at -- in Ms. Payne's book. 15 16 (BRIEF PAUSE) 17 18 Q: That would be volume -- in Ms. Payne's 19 book, she has an entry in her book and we'll get the volume 20 and tab number, February 23rd, '99, Tom Jakobek. 21 A: Yes. 22 Q: We've heard some evidence -- 23 A: In her -- 24 Q: -- I'm sorry? 25 A: -- in her book --

1 Q: In her -- in her diary. 2 A: Okay. 3 Q: Does that assist you at all? Do you 4 recall whether you met Mr. Jakobek with Irene Payne on 5 February 23rd, '99 at -- 6 A: We -- 7 Q: -- some place? 8 A: -- we -- I remember getting together with 9 Mr. Jakobek with Irene once. First time was in and around 10 that time, I'm guessing -- well, actually I'm guessing. I 11 guess I shouldn't use that word in here but I believe that it 12 was probably in February at some point when I -- we met with 13 him. 14 Q: All right. Now, do you recall where you 15 met? 16 A: No. Somewhere -- I believe it was close 17 to Ci -- somewhere around City Hall but I don't know exactly 18 where. 19 Q: Do you recall how long the meeting was? 20 This first meeting? 21 A: I felt like it was a short meeting. That 22 was the first time and -- 23 Q: All right. 24 A: -- no. Not much was really discussed 25 really. I mean Irene talked about MFP -- myself.

1 Q: Do you recall what was discussed at that 2 meeting? Best recollection? 3 A: First time we met, I think Irene was just 4 going to give an overall overview on MFP and what we do. 5 Q: And did she do that? 6 A: Yes, to the best of her ab -- ability. 7 Q: All right. Who arranged that meeting? 8 A: I -- I can't recall whether I arranged 9 the meeting or Christine Vivaldo set up that first meeting 10 but -- because s -- I don't know that she would have liked it 11 too much that I arranged a meeting for Irene. So she may 12 have arranged the meeting. 13 Q: Do you recall whether Mr. Jakobek -- 14 anything Mr. Jakobek may have said at that meeting there? 15 A: He was -- wasn't over -- an overly 16 friendly guy. He was -- he seemed to have all the answers to 17 anything that was said. I believe that's how -- my 18 interpretation of that. Like -- not -- I don't think he said 19 very much to us, he just kind of listened to Irene and I kind 20 of -- 21 Q: All right. Do you recall participating 22 in that conversation to any material extent? 23 A: Not particularly, no. 24 Q: Well, do you recall how you were 25 introduced to Mr. Jakobek in terms of what relationship, if

35
  1  any, you had to the City at MFP?
  2                 A:   How -- I'm sorry, can you say that again?
  3                 Q:   Well, let me -- let me lead a little bit
  4  here.  Did you -- were you introduced as the person that was
  5  in charge of the City account, or that the main salesperson
  6  in charge of the City account?
  7                 A:   I don't think I was introduced as the
  8  main person, I was probably introduced as someone from MFP, I
  9  mean -- 
 10                 Q:   You don't have a specific recollection --
 11                 A:   No, I don't have a specific recollection,
 12  no.
 13                 Q:   Do you recall whether you had discussions
 14  with Ms. Payne about that meeting, after the meeting?
 15                 A:   I'm sure we may have -- I'm sure we did.
 16                 Q:   Do you -- do you recall the specific
 17  discussion?
 18                 A:   I just don't think she got an overall
 19  good feeling from -- when I say good feeling, it wasn't like
 20  there was any substance discussed, it was just kind of
 21  general chatter.
 22                 Q:   All right.  Tab number -- 
 23                 MADAM COMMISSIONER:   Just before we leave
 24  that, Mr. Manes.  Mr. Domi, you said you couldn't recall
 25  whether you had arranged the meeting or whether Christine had

1 done so, because you thought she might not like it too much 2 if you had -- if you had arranged it. 3 I don't know if what you meant by that was 4 that it was Ms. Vivaldo's idea to have the meeting with Mr. 5 Jakobek, or that it was your idea, but she set it all up? 6 THE WITNESS: No, it was probably my 7 suggestion, Commissioner, but she would -- 8 MADAM COMMISSIONER: She would have -- 9 THE WITNESS: -- she would probably -- 10 MADAM COMMISSIONER: -- made the call. 11 THE WITNESS: -- make a -- make the phone 12 calls. 13 14 CONTINUED BY MR. RONALD MANES: 15 Q: Now, at Tab number 17. 16 A: Tab number 17, okay. 17 Q: This is Begdoc 26064. 18 19 (BRIEF PAUSE) 20 21 Q: In the amount of two hundred and seventy- 22 eight dollars and sixty-six cents ($278.66), it's very hard 23 to see this. Is that your signature on that, is that your 24 credit card, Visa card? 25 A: It looks like my signature, yes, that

1 looks like my card. 2 3 (BRIEF PAUSE) 4 5 Q: Do you see on there there's a second 6 page? 7 A: Yes. 8 Q: Now, there is some writing on the second 9 page of this receipt? 10 A: Correct. 11 Q: Could you -- first of all, is that your 12 writing? 13 A: I believe so, yes. 14 Q: And could you -- could you read that to 15 us? 16 A: Vince, Tom, John Danson. 17 Q: After the Tom is there an initial? 18 A: It looks like J -- it looks like J, yes. 19 Q: All right. Now, this is for two hundred 20 and seventy-eight dollars and sixty-six cents ($278.66). You 21 can't tell a date here. 22 23 (BRIEF PAUSE) 24 25 MR. RONALD MANES: Commissioner, we've coded

1 that, and counsel, we've coded that 000000, because we cannot 2 decipher a date on that. 3 4 CONTINUED BY MR. RONALD MANES: 5 Q: In respect to this receipt, sir, two 6 hundred and seventy-eight dollars and sixty-six cents 7 ($278.66), you have Mr. -- appears to be Mr. Jakobek, Mr. 8 Nigro and Mr. Danson? 9 A: Correct. 10 Q: Now, do you remember any occasion 11 involving this kind of money, where you had Mr. Nigro, Mr. 12 Jakobek and Mr. Danson together? 13 A: No, I don't. 14 Q: Did you ever have occasion to entertain 15 Mr. Nigro and Mr. Jakobek together? 16 A: I may have been the same place with them. 17 Q: No, I -- my specific question is, did you 18 ever entertain Mr. Nigro and Mr. Jakobek together? 19 A: I believe I've done that, yes. 20 Q: Now, do you recall when that took place? 21 A: No, not exactly, I don't. 22 Q: Would you recall if perhaps a year that 23 that took place, '99, 2000, 2001? 24 A: I -- at some point in '99, I believe. 25 Q: All right.

1 (BRIEF PAUSE) 2 3 Q: Now, do you recall where you entertained 4 Mr. Nigro and Mr. Jakobek? 5 A: No, I -- I don't exactly, I don't recall 6 where. 7 Q: Well, did you pay the tab, wherever it 8 was? 9 A: I'm sure I did. 10 Q: All right. Do you recall what the 11 purpose of that meeting was? 12 A: The meeting with -- 13 Q: Mr. Nigro and Mr. Jakobek? 14 A: I'm sure I was just probably attempting 15 to pursue Mr. Jakobek, if I could, or understand him. 16 Q: Is it possible that that was the -- an 17 introductory meeting of Mr. Nigro introducing you to Mr. 18 Jakobek? 19 A: In regards to this particular? 20 Q: No, just the meeting that you're -- that 21 you're talking about? 22 A: I don't think so. 23 Q: All right. Now, do you remember -- well, 24 let me ask you this, what was your understanding, however you 25 arrived at it, as to the relationship between Mr. Nigro and

1 Mr. Jakobek? 2 A: I thought they had a long standing 3 relationship, I believe, or worked together over the years or 4 whatever they did. 5 Q: Well, was that understanding based on 6 information, including the information from Mr. Nigro and Mr. 7 Jakobek? 8 A: I'd probably say from Mr. Nigro. 9 Q: All right. And did Mr. Jakobek, as best 10 as you can recall at any given point, discuss Mr. Nigro and 11 his relationship with Mr. Nigro? 12 A: I don't think so, I mean I think he -- he 13 had -- he liked him. I -- I don't know if he likes anybody, 14 but it seems that they -- they kind of -- they had a history, 15 friendly. 16 MADAM COMMISSIONER: Who are you say -- who 17 liked who? Mr. Nigro -- 18 THE WITNESS: Mr. Jakobek and Nigro, I think 19 they seemed to have a -- a decent relationship. 20 MADAM COMMISSIONER: Okay. 21 22 CONTINUED BY MR. RONALD MANES: 23 Q: Now, going back to this particular Tab 24 number 17, 26065, you've put down here, Vince and Tom, it 25 looks like a J, John Danson. Do you have a specific

1 recollection that John Danson was never entertained with 2 Vince and Tom? 3 A: I don't believe I have ever been in the 4 company with all three (3) of them together. 5 Q: All right, and if that is right, why 6 would Mr. Danson's name be on this slip? 7 A: I may have been with Mr. Danson and 8 perhaps Vince or I may have been discussing Mr. Danson or Mr. 9 Jakobek, with perhaps Vince, or both of them, but I can't 10 recall really, I'm not exactly positive. 11 Q: So, if we look at this slip, we can't 12 necessarily tell with any certainty, nor can you tell us with 13 any certainty from this slip, who was actually physically 14 present? 15 A: No. 16 Q: Is it possible, just in the manner in 17 which you've filled out this and other slips, that none of 18 these people were present? 19 A: At that point in time I don't think that 20 would be the case. 21 Q: Why do you say at that point in time? Is 22 there a difference between that point in time and another 23 point in time. Would that be the case? 24 A: I was spending quite a bit of time with 25 Vince back then, so.

1 Q: Is it possible that -- just taking this 2 slip, that Tom Jakobek and Tom Danson were not there? 3 A: Yes. 4 Q: Now, just looking at that slip, the names 5 on it, the amount of it, is there anything else you can 6 assist us with in terms of th -- that particular slip and 7 those entries? 8 A: No, I'm sorry. I can't. 9 Q: All right. Number 22. 10 11 (BRIEF PAUSE) 12 13 Q: Number 22, Begdoc 26030, March 30th, 1999, 14 Pizza Banfi in the amount of one thirty four (134) -- one 15 hundred and thirty-four dollars and six cents ($134.06) 16 Is that your signature? 17 A: Yes. 18 Q: Now, this -- I take it, this receipt says 19 Pizza Banfi on it. 20 21 (BRIEF PAUSE) 22 23 Q: If you go to the second page, there's 24 something written on the first page, I don't know what it is, 25 but go to the second page. Is that your handwriting on the

1 second page? 2 A: It looks like mine, yes. 3 Q: All right and it says: 4 "T O Jakobek" 5 A: Yes. 6 Q: Now, this is March 30th, 1999. Were you 7 with Mr. Jakobek at Pizza Banfi on that date? 8 A: I can not recall being at Pizza Banfi 9 with Mr. Jakobek. 10 Q: Have you ever been to Pizza Banfi with 11 Mr. Jakobek? 12 A: No. 13 Q: When you say you don't recall ever being 14 to Pizza Banfi with Mr. Jakobek, are you able to tell us with 15 any certainty that you were not with Pizza Banfi with Mr. 16 Jakobek on March 30th, 1999? 17 A: I just can not recall go -- ever going to 18 Pizza Banfi with Mr. Jakobek. 19 Q: Do you recall, I appreciate it will be 20 difficult for you to recall, but here's a receipt, T O 21 Jakobek. Could you tell us why you would put Mr. Jakobek's 22 name on here and T O if Mr. Jakobek wasn't physically 23 present? 24 A: It was probably what I was focussed on at 25 the -- at the time.

1 Q: Well, was there any occasion when you 2 would eat alone at Pizza Banfi? 3 A: No. 4 Q: So I take it when we read this -- these 5 slips with Pizza Banfi on it, we can assume that you were 6 with another person? 7 A: Yes. 8 Q: Now, according to your evidence, the -- 9 on this occasion, March the 30th, 1999, that other person 10 that you were with was not Mr. Jakobek? 11 A: Correct. 12 Q: So it must have been somebody else, do 13 you remember who -- who that other person might have been, 14 March 30th, 1999? 15 A: I do not remember. 16 Q: And with respect to that receipt, can you 17 be of any other assistance to us than you've been? 18 A: No, sorry, I -- I've been to Pizza Banfi 19 with many people, actually many people. Vince and I have 20 been there many times, but no, I've never been there with Mr. 21 Jakobek. 22 Q: Have you been to Pizza Banfi with any 23 person from the City -- 24 A: Not that -- 25 Q: -- other than Vince of course?

45
  1                 A:   -- not -- not that I can recall or think
  2  of.
  3  
  4                       (BRIEF PAUSE)
  5  
  6                 MR. RONALD MANES:   Mr. Moore, I have --
  7  notice that this receipt was at 9:52 p.m.  
  8  
  9  CONTINUED BY MR. RONALD MANES:
 10                 Q:   Does that assist you or jog your memory
 11  in any way?
 12                 A:   No.  No, it doesn't, sorry.
 13                 Q:   All right.  
 14  
 15                       (BRIEF PAUSE)
 16  
 17                 Q:   All right, let's go to the next entry,
 18  number 24.
 19                 A:   Okay.
 20                 Q:   Now, there is handwriting on this, let me
 21  just identify it for our record, this is Begdoc number 26022. 
 22  April the 9th, 1999, thirty-five dollars and twenty-five
 23  cents ($35.25), Ferro Bar Cafe Inc.  And on the receipt there
 24  are two (2) initials, can you identify those initials?
 25                 First of all, that's your signature?

1 A: Yes. 2 Q: All right, now, is that your writing in 3 the -- in the mid-part of this receipt? 4 A: I can't make out any writing here on 5 mine. 6 Q: Well, can you identify what those 7 initials are? 8 A: No, I -- I can't see anything on here, on 9 mine anyway. 10 MADAM COMMISSIONER: You can't see anything? 11 THE WITNESS: The -- if I'm -- 12 MADAM COMMISSIONER: It's just -- 13 THE WITNESS: -- looking at the same one (1). 14 MADAM COMMISSIONER: -- where it says term 15 ID? 16 THE WITNESS: Oh, okay. 17 18 (BRIEF PAUSE) 19 20 CONTINUED BY MR. RONALD MANES: 21 Q: Can you assist us, first of all, is that 22 your handwriting? 23 A: My signature? 24 Q: No, those -- those -- that writing 25 across, right adjacent from term ID, that -- that we just

1 pointed out to you? 2 A: Term ID, yeah. 3 MR. DAVID MOORE: I see where your problem 4 is. 5 THE WITNESS: Sorry, I just can't -- 6 7 (BRIEF PAUSE) 8 9 THE WITNESS: Oh, okay. 10 11 CONTINUED BY MR. RONALD MANES: 12 Q: All right, so there's term ID and there's 13 these initials? 14 A: Okay. 15 Q: And this writing? Can you identify -- 16 first of all, is that your writing? 17 A: If it's on my -- my receipt, it must be. 18 Q: All right. 19 A: Something. 20 Q: Well, can you identify the initials? 21 A: No, I can't, it looks like OY or -- to 22 me, I -- 23 Q: All right. Then let's turn to 31. And 24 this is Begdoc number 25614, April the 17th, 1999. Four 25 hundred and sixty-four dollars ($464), Billeterie Centre

1 Molson, Montreal. 2 Can you tell us first of all, is that your 3 signature? 4 A: Yes. 5 Q: And is that your writing in the upper 6 left hand corner? 7 A: It looks that way. 8 Q: All right. Well, would you read what it 9 says in the upper left hand corner? 10 A: It says: 11 "City TO, Vince, John Danson, Tom J" 12 It looks like or -- I don't know what that is 13 on the right there. 14 Q: All right. First of all, do you know 15 what that receipt is for? 16 A: It must be something at the Molson Centre 17 in Montreal. 18 19 (BRIEF PAUSE) 20 21 Q: All right. Let me take you to the -- 22 well first of all, let me go back to that receipt. According 23 to this receipt, in Montreal you were there together with 24 Vince, John Danson and -- and Tom J. I take it that would be 25 Tom Jakobek?

1 A: I -- I take it. 2 Q: Well, when you put Tom J on a receipt, am 3 I right in assuming that would be Tom Jakobek? That -- 4 A: I'm as -- yes. 5 Q: All right. Now, I'll bring you to some 6 documents in a moment but just from the -- from that receipt 7 and in writing that receipt, were you together in -- in -- in 8 Toronto at the Molson Centre with -- 9 MADAM COMMISSIONER: In Toronto? 10 11 CONTINUED BY MR. RONALD MANES: 12 Q: I mean in Montreal with Vince, John 13 Danson and Tom Jakobek? 14 A: No, that I -- no. 15 Q: Why would you have -- have put that on 16 the receipt if you weren't together with those people? 17 A: I don't know why Jakobek's name would be 18 on there or SV or whatever that is on the right. 19 MADAM COMMISSIONER: Well, what? Sorry. 20 THE WITNESS: It looks like an SV to the 21 right of it. I can't make that out really. 22 23 CONTINUED BY MR. RONALD MANES: 24 Q: Was that your handwriting, the SV there, 25 or could it be that someone from the Molson Centre put that

50
  1  handwriting there?
  2                 A:   I -- I don't know what that is --
  3                 Q:   All right.
  4                 A:   It's not my -- I don't know what that is
  5  at all.
  6                 Q:   Let's -- Mr. Jakobek was not with you at
  7  the Molson Centre?  
  8                 A:   No, not that I can recall.  No.
  9                 Q:   And I -- my -- my question to you then
 10  was why you would include his name as being in the Molson --
 11  at the Molson Centre when he was not?
 12                 A:   I may have been discussing him there with
 13  -- if I put Vince and John down but no, I was not with him. 
 14  No.
 15                 Q:   Would you -- would you go to your
 16  documents, Mr. Domi.  Not your expenses, just your volume of
 17  documents.
 18                 A:   This here, right?  Okay.
 19  
 20                       (BRIEF PAUSE)
 21  
 22                 Q:   Now, at Tab 19 and I'll take you -- just
 23  for you to review quickly, Tabs 19, 20, 21 and 22 and 23.
 24                 A:   Okay.
 25                 Q:   Now, first, let me -- let me refer you to

1 the Tab 21. This is the passenger manifest from that flight 2 and listed on this -- on this -- the passenger manifest Dash 3 Domi, John Danson, Vince Nigro, Tony Miele, John Prato, P-R- 4 A-T-O, Bob Godfrey, were they on that flight with you? 5 MADAM COMMISSIONER: What date is that 6 flight? 7 MR. RONALD MANES: April 17th, 1999. 8 MADAM COMMISSIONER: Okay. 9 MR. RONALD MANES: Upper right hand corner, 10 Commissioner. 11 THE WITNESS: I can't recall Tony Miele being 12 on that flight. 13 14 CONTINUED BY MR. RONALD MANES: 15 Q: Well, it's just in relation to -- to that 16 entry, would you have advised Sky Charter that these people 17 were going to be on that flight? 18 A: Or were potential passengers, I believe, 19 yes. 20 Q: All right. So, I take it you're -- 21 you're -- what you would do is -- is make arrangements with 22 these individuals? 23 A: I'm sorry? 24 Q: You would make arrangements with the 25 individuals that you wanted to come on the flight?

1 A: Yes. 2 Q: And then you would advise Sky Charter, 3 who was -- who was going to be -- 4 A: Correct. 5 Q: -- accompanying on the flight? 6 A: Yes. 7 Q: All right. And then you see at Tab 22? 8 A: Yes. 9 Q: This is the return, and you see those 10 same people listed, Domi, Danson, Nigro, Miele, Prato, Bob 11 Godfrey? 12 A: Yes. 13 Q: But you -- you don't have a recollection 14 of Mr. Miele being on that flight there or back? 15 A: No. 16 Q: All right. Now, at Tab number 19, which 17 is an enclosure of a fax, which is at Tab 20, is the invoice 18 to MFP Financial Services to the attention of Dash Domi, 19 invoice dated April 19th, 1999. 20 And the charting date, do you see that in the 21 left hand, about a quarter of the page down, charter date, 22 routings, passengers, just on the up -- just on the -- you'll 23 see a line -- 24 A: Oh, I see it -- I see it, okay. 25 Q: -- all right?

1 A: Yeah. 2 Q: The charter date is April 17th, 1999? 3 A: Yes. 4 Q: And then on passengers, it is -- it has 5 listed by these last names, Domi, Danson, Nigro, Miele, 6 Prato, Godfrey, and then the total amount, which I can't read 7 very clearly, it says fifty-six hundred (5600) and some 8 dollars, in any event. Did you receive that invoice? 9 A: I must have, yes. 10 Q: Well, let's just take Mr. Miele for 11 example. You don't recall him being on the flight, are you 12 able to say that -- for certain that he was not on the 13 flight? 14 A: Well, I just can't recall him being on 15 the flight. 16 Q: When you received the invoice, would you 17 have seen that Mr. Miele was included on the -- on the 18 flight, as a passenger? 19 A: I don't really think I looked at the 20 passengers. 21 Q: All right. 22 23 (BRIEF PAUSE) 24 25 Q: We heard evidence from Ms. Payne that

1 this was an approved flight, that she discussed it with you 2 and you got her approval to -- to make these arrangements? 3 A: Yes, I -- 4 Q: All right. Do you recall getting -- 5 discussing this with Ms. -- Ms. Payne and -- and seeking her 6 approval to make this flight -- 7 A: Well I -- 8 Q: -- a company expense? 9 A: -- I had been there four and a half (4 10 1/2) months, I don't think I was going to charter a flight 11 just on my own, obviously. 12 Q: Your answer to my question is yes? 13 A: Yes. 14 Q: All right. Now, do you recall whether 15 you told Ms. Payne who was going to be on the flight? 16 A: I don't think I -- I don't recall telling 17 her. I don't know that she even asked me. 18 Q: Do you recall -- you don't -- I'm sorry, 19 you said something under your breath. You don't think she 20 asked you? 21 A: Yes, I don't recall telling her though. 22 Q: Well, like you say you're pretty new at 23 MFP, you were four and a half (4 1/2) months there, you 24 wanted to charter a flight to Montreal, it's going to cost a 25 lot of money?

1 A: Oh, I -- I made a suggestion. I didn't 2 say I was going to do it. I just asked and she was -- 3 thought it was a great idea. 4 Q: Well, I guess that's where I -- I'm 5 puzzled. How did she know it was a great idea, if all you 6 told her was you wanted to charter a flight to Montreal? 7 A: I -- I told her I was going to attempt to 8 get prospective clients or potential business or -- 9 Q: All right and it -- it's your evidence 10 that on the basis of that information, the flight was 11 approved by Ms. Payne? 12 A: Yes. 13 Q: Did you -- were you going to say 14 something? 15 A: No. 16 Q: Did you -- did you ever tell Ms. Payne 17 who actually was on this flight? 18 A: I -- I don't know. I don't even know if 19 she asked me. 20 Q: All right. Now, can you tell me what was 21 the business purpose for having Mr. Danson to Montreal on 22 this flight and for the game? 23 A: Friend, has a large network of people 24 that hopefully I can tap into or get to know. 25 Q: That large network of people included

1 people at the City of Toronto? 2 A: Across the board. 3 Q: The answer is yes, it included people at 4 the City of Toronto? 5 A: Sure. 6 Q: Who? 7 A: Oh, I don't know. He -- John knows 8 everybody. 9 Q: But who in particular did you -- 10 A: When I say everybody, I -- I don't know. 11 He -- I know he was the Mayor's former campaign manager, I 12 believe. 13 Q: So he would have known the Mayor? 14 A: I believe so, yes. 15 Q: Well, if he's his campaign manager, you 16 can do more than believe so. He would have known him, 17 wouldn't he? 18 A: I'm sure. 19 Q: All right. Who else would Mr. Danson 20 have known, to your -- to your knowledge, in the City of 21 Toronto? 22 A: I -- I -- I don't know who else he would 23 know, really. Specifically. 24 Q: Well, one of the reasons you took Mr. 25 Danson was to see if you could use whatever relationships he

1 had in -- in the City of Toronto? 2 A: Yes. 3 Q: To network? 4 A: Correct. 5 Q: All right. So did you have any 6 discussion with Mr. Danson then or -- or perhaps any other 7 time about other relationships at the City of Toronto? 8 A: I think I just generally talked about the 9 City of Toronto. I mean, I may have asked him about 10 individuals like Jakobek or others. 11 Q: You say Jakobek or others. Ms. Liczyk? 12 A: I don't know, Mr. Manes. It's possible 13 but I'm not sure who that may have been. 14 Q: Mr. Andrew? 15 A: I don't know. 16 Q: I take it that he -- well, I shouldn't 17 say that. I take it -- would you have talked to him, for 18 example, about Ms. Viinamae? 19 A: I don't know. I don't know if he'd know 20 -- I don't know if he'd know City staff, per se. 21 Q: The people that, in your mind, as you 22 give evidence here, that you -- you're thinking that he would 23 know or might know would be -- would include Ms. Liczyk and 24 Mr. Andrew? 25 A: I don't know that.

1 Q: Did you ever talk to him about the Mayor? 2 A: I -- I must have. 3 Q: Why do you say you must have? 4 A: Well, this -- he's -- his experiences in 5 the campaign and how it went, I guess. Just all -- it was 6 all new to me. So, I mean, there isn't anything that I would 7 hear that I would know already. So anything that I would 8 hear from these guys was new, so. 9 Q: Well, you wanted to meet the Mayor, 10 didn't you? 11 A: Oh, no. 12 Q: No? 13 A: No. 14 Q: Did you tell Mr. Danson, no, I don't want 15 to meet the Mayor? 16 A: Well, no, I mean I don't -- the Mayor is 17 the Mayor, I mean -- I -- 18 Q: All right, well, we'll come to that issue 19 under another circumstance. What was the business purpose 20 for having Mr. Nigro in April -- April 17th, 1999? 21 A: The same purpose, I had no clients, I had 22 no -- I didn't have anything, so I was attempting to build a 23 clientele, which I did not have. 24 Q: Mr. -- to your recollection, was Mr. 25 Nigro working as a Special Assistant to the Mayor at the time

1 you -- you flew him to Montreal? 2 A: That I don't know, Mr. Manes. I don't 3 know when he left the Mayor's office. 4 Q: All right. Now, Mr. Prato, what was -- 5 what was the business purpose for having Mr. Prato? 6 MADAM COMMISSIONER: Mr. Manes, you've 7 disappeared from the microphone. 8 MR. RONALD MANES: Oh. 9 10 CONTINUED BY MR. RONALD MANES: 11 Q: Mr. Prato, what was the business purpose 12 for having Mr. Prato? 13 A: Same purpose. 14 Q: And Mr. Godfrey? 15 A: Exactly the same purpose. 16 Q: What was that purpose again? 17 A: I was attempting to build a network of 18 people, clients, individuals, that I did not have at that 19 time, zero (0). 20 Q: Now, at this -- at this point you were 21 friends with Mr. Danson? 22 A: Well, I wouldn't say I was friends with 23 him, I just met him. 24 Q: When did you -- when did you meet him? 25 A: I don't know when I met him, I met him

1 probably soon before this. I don't know what point I was 2 introduced to John, it was probably sometime in '99. 3 Q: All right. You were friends with Mr. 4 Nigro at least at this time? 5 A: Yes. 6 Q: You were friends with Mr. Godfrey, Rob -- 7 Bob Godfrey, according to the way it's written here? 8 A: Yes. 9 Q: All right. What was Mr. Prato's job at 10 the time? 11 A: He was an investment banker. 12 Q: How did you know him? 13 MADAM COMMISSIONER: Mr. Manes, I'm sorry, we 14 -- they're having a hard time hearing you because you're -- 15 it's okay, the microphone is fine, it's -- 16 MR. RONALD MANES: All right. 17 MADAM COMMISSIONER: -- Mr. Manes, the 18 microphone is fine, it's just that you keep moving away from 19 it. So, if you could stay somewhat near the microphone, the 20 reporters will be able to hear you. 21 22 CONTINUED BY MR. RONALD MANES: 23 Q: Mr. Prato, what was -- he was an 24 investment banker? 25 A: Yes.

1 Q: And how did you know him? 2 A: I think I met him through Rob. 3 Q: All right. Mr. Miele, what was -- I 4 appreciate that he didn't end up going according to your 5 evidence, but what was -- what was he -- 6 MADAM COMMISSIONER: I don't think he said he 7 didn't go, I thought he said he didn't recall him being 8 there? Was -- Mr. Domi, are you saying that -- 9 THE WITNESS: That's correct. 10 MADAM COMMISSIONER: -- he was not there or 11 you just don't recall? 12 THE WITNESS: No, you're right, I just -- I 13 just have no recollection of him. 14 MADAM COMMISSIONER: Okay. 15 THE WITNESS: Ever going. 16 MADAM COMMISSIONER: All right. 17 18 CONTINUED BY MR. RONALD MANES: 19 Q: Mr. Miele, what was his job at the time? 20 A: I'm not sure if he was with the Province 21 at that -- I'm not exactly sure where he was working at that 22 particular time. 23 Q: All right. 24 A: Yeah. 25 Q: How did you -- how did you know him?

1 A: I met him through Vince. 2 Q: When you say you met him through Vince, 3 Vince introduced him to you? 4 A: Yes. 5 Q: All right. Well was the purpose of -- of 6 Vince introducing him to you have any relationship to MFP? 7 A: I mean he's a potential prospect -- 8 prospect for business. 9 Q: So, was Vince's purpose in introducing 10 Tony Miele to you as a prospective MFP client? 11 A: No, that was -- that was my 12 interpretation of it, he just introduced me to him. 13 Q: All right. 14 15 (BRIEF PAUSE) 16 17 Q: Now, have you told us everything that you 18 can recall about this Montreal trip that involved or didn't 19 involve Mr. Jakobek? 20 A: Yes. 21 22 (BRIEF PAUSE) 23 24 Q: Now, you gave evidence that you have no 25 recollection of Mr. Miele being there. Is that the same

1 evidence in respect to Mr. Jakobek? 2 A: Yes. 3 Q: That you have no recollection? 4 A: No. 5 Q: All right. Are you able to say for 6 certain that Mr. Jakobek was not there? 7 A: I don't believe I ever -- at that time I 8 would have extended an invite to him. That's what I base 9 that on. 10 Q: To answer my question, are you able to 11 say with certainty that he was not there? 12 A: Yeah. I can probably be fairly certain. 13 Q: And are you able to say with certainty 14 that Mr. Miele was not there? 15 A: I'm fairly certain of that. 16 Q: In any event, you're certain that the 17 others listed in the passenger manifest were there? 18 A: From what I remember, yes. It was four 19 (4) and a half years ago, so. 20 21 (BRIEF PAUSE) 22 23 Q: Just in terms of the -- the length of 24 time ago it was, was this your first trip ever on a private 25 jet?

1 A: Yes, I'd say it was. It was probably my 2 seven hundredth (700th) hockey game but my first trip on a 3 jet. 4 Q: All right. Now, if you look at Tab 30 -- 5 Tabs 36 and 37. 6 MADAM COMMISSIONER: Of which binder? 7 MR. RONALD MANES: Of the expense binder, at 8 Volume 1. 9 10 CONTINUED BY MR. RONALD MANES: 11 Q: At Tab 36 is Begdoc 26038 and Tab 37 is 12 Begdoc 26047. Now, let's start with Tab 37 and I'll explain 13 to you the reason why when we come to Tab 36. 14 Tab 37, 26047, Platinum Club, April 24th, 15 1999, time 10:44 p.m. and the amount is three hundred and 16 forty-three dollars and twenty-one cents ($343.21). 17 A: I'm sorry, I -- 18 MADAM COMMISSIONER: Tab 37. 19 THE WITNESS: Okay. 20 MADAM COMMISSIONER: Are you there, Mr. Domi? 21 THE WITNESS: Yes. 22 MADAM COMMISSIONER: Okay. 23 24 CONTINUED BY MR. RONALD MANES: 25 Q: Is that for a hockey game, Mr. Domi?

1 A: J.J. Muggs? Is that what -- 2 Q: Platinum Club. 3 A: Yes, I believe so. It must have been. I 4 have no other purpose for going there. 5 Q: Now, if you look at that receipt, upper 6 left hand corner. Could you read what it says there? 7 A: What it says -- 8 MADAM COMMISSIONER: The handwriting -- 9 MR. RONALD MANES: The handwriting -- 10 MADAM COMMISSIONER: -- there -- 11 THE WITNESS: Oh. TO, it looks like Tom J. 12 13 CONTINUED BY MR. RONALD MANES: 14 Q: Now, do you recall April 24th, '99, 15 having Mr. Jakobek physically present and entertaining him at 16 the Platinum Club? 17 A: I -- I can't isolate it to that, but I -- 18 I've been -- he's been definitely in the Platinum Club when 19 I've been there. 20 Q: And when you've been there and you -- did 21 you entertain him? 22 A: I believe he's joined us there, yes. 23 Q: And when you were there and he joined you 24 there, did you pay for him? 25 A: I -- I'm sure.

1 (BRIEF PAUSE) 2 3 Q: Are you able to say by looking at this 4 particular receipt, 26047, whether this entire amount of 5 three hundred and forty-three dollars and twenty-one cents 6 ($343.21), where you've put TO, Tom J., whether the entire 7 amount was for your entertaining of Mr. Jakobek? 8 A: No. 9 Q: Are you saying you're -- it was not or 10 you're unable to tell me? 11 A: I mean I just -- I can't see that being 12 the case, I mean. 13 Q: Do you have a specific recollection of 14 this occasion? 15 A: No, I don't. 16 Q: All right. Now, when you said you can't 17 see that being the case, could you explain it for the 18 Commissioner? 19 A: Usually, Commissioner, I'm -- I'm with so 20 many people, that I'm never with one (1) -- oh, I'm sorry, 21 I'm usually there with many people. 22 MADAM COMMISSIONER: And not just one (1) 23 person? 24 THE WITNESS: Yeah, or I mean, I don't have 25 the luxury of being like everyone else where -- because my

1 brother plays for the team, kind of -- always -- people are 2 always around also, so -- 3 MADAM COMMISSIONER: Around you, you mean, 4 or -- 5 THE WITNESS: Well, when I say around me, I 6 mean people always want to talk and introduce you to somebody 7 or I seem to have -- to go through that all the time, so -- 8 9 CONTINUED BY MR. RONALD MANES: 10 Q: All right, now, if you can go back with 11 me, Mr. Domi, to Tab 36. This is Begdoc 26038, this is from 12 CentreSports, three hundred and twenty-four dollars and 13 sixty-seven cents ($364.67). April 23rd, 1999, that's your 14 signature? 15 A: Yes. 16 Q: And do you see the equipment there? V- 17 necks, logo polo -- 18 A: Replica Domi, Replica Domi, Replica Domi. 19 Q: All right, and the -- there is 20 handwriting on the face of this, other than your signature in 21 the upper right hand corner? 22 A: Yes. 23 Q: What does that say? 24 A: I think it says C of TO. 25 Q: Can you identify that as being your

1 handwriting? 2 A: I cannot identify that as being my 3 handwriting, I don't know that to be mine. 4 Q: Right. In any event, this is your 5 signature -- 6 A: Yes. 7 Q: -- for a number of purchases at 8 CentreSports, which you charged to your company? 9 A: Yes. 10 Q: All right, now you've also told us that 11 the next day that you entertained at the Platinum Club, 12 including Mr. Domi, I mean including Mr. Jakobek, and that's 13 at Tab 37, remember? 14 A: Correct. 15 Q: All right, do you remember whether this 16 -- was this purchase -- did that -- that have anything to do 17 with the subsequent night? The purchase was on the 23rd, 18 April 23rd, and the hockey game was on the 24th? Did that 19 purchase have anything to do with the hockey game or...? 20 A: I don't know. 21 Q: Do you remember whether you ever made 22 purchases at CentreSport or otherwise, to -- to give to 23 people who you may be entertaining in the box? 24 A: Yes. 25 Q: Right. Now, do you remember whether you

1 ever gave Mr. Jakobek anything that you had purchased for him 2 when he was in the box? 3 A: I can't recall if I ever did, I may have, 4 but I -- I -- I give a lot of people or many, many charities. 5 Domi replicas, so. 6 Q: Do you recall on this occasion, if you 7 can? 8 A: No, I can't recall. 9 Q: All right. Now, do you recall any 10 occasion quite apart from this receipt, where you have 11 purchased anything sports-wise to give to any City official, 12 Councillor or staff member in the box? 13 A: I may have given them hats or stuff like 14 that -- or a sweater, but who -- 15 MADAM COMMISSIONER: Pardon? 16 THE WITNESS: I -- I -- I -- 17 MADAM COMMISSIONER: I just didn't hear the 18 last word. 19 THE WITNESS: Commissioner, I -- I mean, I've 20 given -- 21 MADAM COMMISSIONER: I just didn't hear your 22 last word. 23 THE WITNESS: Oh, or who. 24 MADAM COMMISSIONER: Who? 25 THE WITNESS: Is that what I said?

1 MADAM COMMISSIONER: Who? 2 THE WITNESS: I'm not sure my -- what the 3 last word -- 4 MADAM COMMISSIONER: Yeah, that was -- 5 THE WITNESS: Or I was going to say -- 6 MADAM COMMISSIONER: Or who, oh, I see. I 7 thought y -- who was a thing, sorry. I thought it was, I 8 don't know, some hockey thing or something. I just didn't 9 know if it was something you could by at CentreSports or 10 something. 11 MR. RONALD MANES: I -- I -- 12 MADAM COMMISSIONER: Maybe I need a break. 13 14 CONTINUED BY MR. RONALD MANES: 15 Q: I think what you were saying was you may 16 have purchased hats or a sweater or sweaters and then you 17 said who. Were you saying who it was for you can't -- 18 A: I have no idea. 19 Q: All right. 20 21 (BRIEF PAUSE) 22 23 Q: Now, April 30th -- I'm sorry, 41 and 42. 24 MADAM COMMISSIONER: Are you going to two (2) 25 more?

1 MR. RONALD MANES: Yes. 2 MADAM COMMISSIONER: All right. Why don't 3 just take a break here and then -- we'll break until twenty- 4 five (25) after. 5 THE REGISTRAR: The Inquiry will recess until 6 3:25. 7 8 --- Upon recessing at 3:09 p.m. 9 10 --- Upon resuming at 3:26 p.m. 11 12 THE REGISTRAR: Order. The Inquiry will 13 resume, please be seated. 14 15 (BRIEF PAUSE) 16 17 CONTINUED BY MR. RONALD MANES: 18 Q: Mr. Domi...? 19 A: Yes. 20 Q: How's your chair? 21 A: Actually my chair is perfect now -- 22 Q: All right. 23 A: -- finally. I think I got it. Thank 24 you. 25 Q: In your -- in your volume on Domi expense

1 book, Tabs 41 and 42? 2 3 (BRIEF PAUSE) 4 5 A: 41 and 42, okay. 6 Q: Now, let me just identify these for the - 7 - for our record her, Tab 41 is Begdoc 26018, receipt in the 8 amount of three hundred and sixty-nine dollars and twenty- 9 seven cents ($369.27), Platinum Club 10 Tab 42 is COT-26026, a receipt for five 11 hundred and forty-two dollars and five cents ($542.05), J.J. 12 Muggs. 13 Those two (2) receipts are for a hockey game? 14 A: I -- Platinum Club. Yes, only for hockey 15 games. 16 Q: Both April 30th, 1999? 17 A: Yes. 18 Q: Now, on -- could you take the -- the 19 first receipt at Tab 41, 26018, which is three hundred and 20 sixty-nine dollars and twenty-seven cents ($369.27). That's 21 your signature, is it? 22 A: Correct. 23 Q: All right. Now, underneath that you've 24 written some -- there's your handwriting. Would you like to 25 read that for the record?

1 A: It says: 2 "City TO, Tom J, Jim Andrew, Wanda L" 3 Q: All right and Tab 42. 4 A: Okay. 5 Q: And we'll come back to the first one, 6 26026 for five hundred and forty-two dollars and five cents 7 ($542.05). 8 A: Okay. 9 Q: J.J. Muggs. 10 A: Yes. 11 Q: Would you read the -- the -- your -- is 12 that your handwriting there? 13 A: It seems that way, yes. 14 Q: All right. Would you read the names? 15 A: City TO, Tom Jakobek, Jim A, Wanda. 16 Q: Jim A, I take it, would be Jim Andrew? 17 A: I believe so, yes. 18 Q: And Wanda would be Wanda Liczyk? 19 A: Yes. 20 Q: And Tom Jakobek. Of course, all three 21 (3) of those are with the City of Toronto? 22 A: Yes. 23 Q: And the same with the -- the Platinum 24 Club at Tab 41? City of Toronto, Tom J, Jim Andrew, Wanda L? 25 All City of Toronto?

1 A: Yes. 2 Q: All right. Now, do you recall whether 3 Mr. Jakobek, Mr. Andrew and Ms. Liczyk were at a game 4 together and in particular, this April 30th, 1999 game? 5 A: This particular game, I don't know. 6 People would often come in and out -- when it says -- for 7 example -- can I explain J.J. Muggs to you? 8 Q: Yes. 9 A: J.J. Muggs, Commissioner, just in case y 10 -- I'll just explain it to you. 11 MADAM COMMISSIONER: I do know J.J. Muggs. 12 THE WITNESS: Oh, you do know the difference? 13 J.J. Muggs and -- 14 MADAM COMMISSIONER: And the Platinum Club? 15 No, you go ahead and explain to all of us. 16 THE WITNESS: Well, usually when it says J.J. 17 Muggs, that's in-suite service. That means it's in the box 18 and the Platinum Club, sometimes they mixed them -- well, not 19 mixed them but I don't know if it's the same -- they're the 20 same organization or not, to be honest with you but that's a 21 lower level of the Air Canada Centre where it's usually 22 people who are going to go to the game, and prior to the game 23 sit and eat or have drinks. They don't have to eat, really. 24 MADAM COMMISSIONER: Do they have to -- 25 THE WITNESS: They can just --

1 MADAM COMMISSIONER: -- be in the box? 2 THE WITNESS: No. 3 MADAM COMMISSIONER: Be -- have a box? 4 THE WITNESS: No, they don't. So it's like 5 -- they can have drinks or whatever they want, really. 6 7 CONTINUED BY MR. RONALD MANES: 8 Q: All right. Now, let's take Platinum 9 Club. 10 A: Okay. 11 Q: Did you entertain Tom Jakobek, Jim Andrew 12 and Wanda Liczyk at the Platinum Club on April 30th, 1999 and 13 just so we can put this in some context, May the 2nd, '99 is 14 the Philadelphia Flyers play-off game in Philadelphia. 15 A: Right. 16 Q: Does that help you any as to whether 17 April 30th, 1999, three (3) or four (4) days prior, at the 18 last play-off game in Toronto you entertained -- 19 A: I -- I may -- 20 Q: -- Mr. Jakobek -- 21 A: -- I may have -- I may have done that. 22 Q: -- all right. 23 A: I may have stopped in. People are always 24 at those games, so. 25 Q: According to this entry, you did.

1 A: Yes. 2 Q: All right. One -- one reading that entry 3 would assume that Mr. Jakobek, Mr. Andrew and Ms. Liczyk were 4 entertained and present in the Platinum Club? 5 A: Correct. 6 Q: Do you have a specific recollection of 7 entertaining Mr. Jakobek, Mr. Andrew, and Ms. Liczyk in the 8 Platinum Club, for the game that was a few days prior to the 9 Flyer's game in -- in Philadelphia? 10 A: A specific recollection, I do not. But I 11 recall a given time I think in that period where I think they 12 were all at a game or -- in that time period. 13 Q: Now, you talked about people dropping 14 into the -- to the box? 15 A: It's a revolving door in there. 16 Q: Right. But in this -- in the Platinum 17 Club, you -- you picked up the tab? 18 A: Yes. 19 Q: All right, and you wrote -- at the time 20 you picked up the tab, you wrote City TO, Tom J., Jim Andrew, 21 and Wanda Liczyk on the receipt from the Platinum Club? 22 A: Yes. 23 Q: So in this particular instance, can we 24 take it from -- from that receipt, that they were there and 25 entertained?

1 A: I'm not positive of that, Mr. Manes. 2 Q: Does it assist you at all, that if we go 3 to then Tab 42, which is J.J. Muggs, and you have on that 4 receipt written as well, City TO, City of Toronto, Tom 5 Jakobek, Jim Andrew and Wanda Liczyk? 6 A: Yes. 7 Q: Now, so you've written this on -- on two 8 (2) separate receipts, two (2) -- two (2) separate places, 9 does that assist you in -- with any certainty in saying that 10 you entertained Mr. Jakobek, Mr. Andrew, and Ms. Liczyk at 11 that April 30th -- 12 A: Yes. 13 Q: -- game? 14 A: Yes. 15 Q: All right. Do you have a recollection 16 that you did now? 17 A: I -- I believe I did, yes. 18 Q: All right, and am I right in saying that 19 -- that you paid, they didn't? 20 A: Yes. 21 MADAM COMMISSIONER: Does this mean that they 22 were in your box, that they -- that you had invited them to 23 the box; is that what you're remembering or just these -- 24 that you -- 25 THE WITNESS: Commissioner, I -- the -- I've

1 been there with so many people, and so many people come into 2 our box, of course they've been in my box. Yes. 3 MADAM COMMISSIONER: No, I understand that. 4 THE WITNESS: Did I make that clear, or -- 5 sorry. 6 MADAM COMMISSIONER: No, no, no. No, I'm 7 just wondering if you recall whether you had invited them all 8 to your box and then went to -- 9 THE WITNESS: Oh, I see. 10 MADAM COMMISSIONER: -- the Platinum, you 11 see. Went to the Platinum Club maybe before or after, in- 12 suite during. I wasn't there, I'm just -- 13 THE WITNESS: No, I -- I may have invited - I 14 probably more often than not throw out invitations, if I had 15 access to it or to the game. 16 And more often than not, people know which box 17 belongs to my brother, so it's -- more often than not, people 18 know which box is ours. So -- 19 MADAM COMMISSIONER: Right. 20 THE WITNESS: -- people are always just 21 dropping -- dropping in. 22 23 CONTINUED BY MR. RONALD MANES: 24 Q: Let's pick up on that last part. People 25 are -- can drop into your box or they can have tickets, if

1 you provide them? 2 A: Yes. Well, people who are at that level, 3 I mean, I don't know, there's probably a hundred (100) boxes 4 maybe around that two hundred (200) level, I don't know if 5 there's a hundred (100), I'm not exactly sure of the number. 6 But people go in and out of those boxes, twenty thousand 7 (20,000) people at every game, so -- 8 Q: You have to have a ticket to get in the 9 game? 10 A: Correct. 11 Q: All right. On occasion -- 12 A: Yes, 13 Q: -- as -- as we understand it, you would 14 have tickets for people to come to your box? 15 A: Yes, yes. 16 Q: All right. Now, on the occasions when 17 Mr. Jakobek was in your box, do you recall whether you 18 purchased tickets for him, or no? 19 A: I -- I do not recall, Mr. Manes. 20 Q: Do you recall ever purchasing or paying 21 for tickets to the -- to a game for Mr. Jakobek? 22 A: I may have, but I'm -- but I -- I can't 23 recall positively, because he made a big issue out of letting 24 everyone know he's got his own ticket, so he was kind of -- I 25 don't -- I don't know.

1 Q: But would -- would that prevent you from 2 buying the ticket? 3 A: Well, no, I wouldn't care if he had 4 tickets or not. 5 Q: All right. 6 MADAM COMMISSIONER: When you say he made a 7 big issue of letting everyone know that he has his own 8 tickets, was that then -- 9 THE WITNESS: I just -- 10 MADAM COMMISSIONER: -- or something you -- 11 THE WITNESS: I remember him saying I have my 12 own tickets and probably point to his ticket that are in 13 front of my box somewhere. I -- I don't know. I can't 14 recall, Commissioner, but I remember -- well, not a lot of 15 people have tickets there so -- unless it's corporate world 16 but I -- I recall him saying he had tickets, so. 17 18 (BRIEF PAUSE) 19 20 CONTINUED BY MR. RONALD MANES: 21 Q: All right. Let's turn to Tab 44 in -- in 22 your binder of documents -- this is the receipts, rather. 23 Tab 44 of the receipts and then we'll go to the -- the 24 documents in the document binder that relate to -- 25 A: Okay.

1 Q: -- Philadelphia. 2 A: Sure. 3 Q: All right? 4 A: Yeah. 5 Q: Now, Tab 44 is Document 25617. 6 A: Okay. 7 Q: May the 2nd, 1999. The amount is six 8 hundred and seven dollars and fifty cents ($607.50), and 9 typewritten on this receipt is Philadelphia Flyers. 10 A: Right. 11 Q: What complex is that? I can't read it. 12 A: I don't know. 13 Q: What's the name of the complex in 14 Philadelphia? 15 A: I -- I don't know. 16 MADAM COMMISSIONER: Does it say Corestates? 17 THE WITNESS: Corestates or something. I -- 18 I don't know. I have no idea what the name is. 19 20 CONTINUED BY MR. RONALD MANES: 21 Q: Now, right above that -- that's your 22 signature -- 23 A: Yes. 24 Q: -- below? Now, right above it there's 25 handwriting. Is that your handwriting?

1 A: Yes. 2 Q: Would you read that for us? 3 A: City of Toronto, Vince, Ontario 4 Government, I believe it says Tom J there. 5 Q: All right. Now, that we've -- we've 6 agreed when you make entries like that it would be Tom 7 Jakobek? 8 A: Yes. 9 Q: And Vince? 10 A: Correct. 11 Q: Vince Nigro? 12 A: Yes. 13 Q: City of Toronto? 14 A: Correct. 15 Q: And Ontario government? Right? 16 A: Right. 17 Q: Okay. Now, do you remember what that 18 purchase was for? 19 A: That must be tickets, I believe at the 20 complex, I guess. 21 Q: Now, I take it that people that came on 22 the flight with you, you bought tickets for to -- to go to 23 the game? 24 A: Pardon? 25 Q: I take it that the people that were on

1 the flight that you invited to Philadelphia -- 2 A: Yes. 3 Q: -- what was that -- 4 A: Yes. 5 Q: I won't jump the gun here. 6 A: Sure, sure. 7 Q: You -- you bought tickets for them? 8 A: Yes. 9 Q: Now, you bought tickets for -- that you 10 just referred to in your receipt here as Ontario government? 11 Right? You didn't list any names there -- 12 A: No. 13 Q: -- under Ontario government, and then you 14 bought tickets for what you call City of Toronto? 15 A: Correct. 16 Q: And then you've listed two (2) names, Tom 17 Jakobek and Vince Nigro. Right? 18 A: Right. 19 Q: All right. Now, were there people from 20 the Ontario government that you were buying tickets for? 21 A: No, not that I can -- 22 Q: All right. So -- 23 A: -- think of. 24 Q: -- all right. Now, were there people 25 from the City of Toronto that you were buying tickets for?

1 A: No. 2 Q: Mr. Nigro wasn't at the City of Toronto 3 at that time, right? 4 A: I -- I really don't know where he was, 5 Mr. Manes, at the time. 6 Q: All right and you have Tom J -- or Tom 7 Jakobek here as -- as buying a ticket for. Did you buy a 8 ticket for Tom Jakobek for the Philadelphia Flyers game? 9 A: No. 10 Q: Could you explain why -- you did buy one 11 (1) for Vince? 12 A: I believe so, yes. 13 Q: All right. Would you explain why you 14 would put Mr. Jakobek's name on here, on this slip, with 15 respect to purchasing a ticket to a Philadelphia Flyer's game 16 when you didn't purchase a ticket for him? 17 A: I don't know, it just probably just the 18 same as the Montreal one (1). 19 Q: Well, can you explain that? 20 A: I -- I don't know, I just put -- put it 21 on there, perhaps. 22 Q: Could -- is it possible that you put it 23 on there because you were buying Mr. Jakobek a ticket? 24 A: I can't recall buying him a ticket there, 25 no.

1 Q: Is it possible that you put it on there 2 because you were buying Mr. Jakobek a ticket? 3 A: No. 4 Q: Do you recall that you certainly were not 5 buying Mr. Jakobek a ticket? 6 A: I cannot recall -- I just can't recall 7 buying him a ticket, no. 8 Q: All right. Let's go to -- if you take 9 your -- your document binder -- 10 A: Okay. 11 12 (BRIEF PAUSE) 13 14 Q: And I want to take you to Tabs 24 -- let 15 me name them off, Tab 24, Tab 25 -- 16 MADAM COMMISSIONER: Which -- oh -- 17 MR. RONALD MANES: This is the -- 18 MADAM COMMISSIONER: -- this is his binder? 19 MR. RONALD MANES: Yes, the document binder, 20 yes. 21 MADAM COMMISSIONER: Twenty-four (24), 25, 22 yes. 23 24 CONTINUED BY MR. RONALD MANES: 25 Q: Twenty-four (24), 25, 26, 27 --

1 A: Just one (1) sec please. I've got the 2 wrong one (1) here. 3 Q: Documents 24, 25, 26 and 27? 4 A: Okay. 5 Q: Now, these are all documents from Sky 6 Charter. 7 A: Okay. 8 Q: And now I take it that you have reviewed 9 these documents previously? 10 A: I did look at these documents, yes. 11 Q: Now, let me just say that as a general 12 observation that according to these documents Mr. Jakobek was 13 on that flight on that trip to Philadelphia? 14 A: Right. 15 Q: Now, is the -- the invoice and the -- the 16 passenger manifest, coming and going, as well as the list of 17 passengers in Tab 27, for internal use, are all those 18 documents mistaken as to Mr. Jakobek being on that trip? 19 A: I -- I cannot recall Mr. Jakobek coming 20 along on that trip. 21 Q: Are you certain he didn't? 22 A: I'm fairly certain, but I -- I just can't 23 recall him being on the trip, no. 24 Q: Those documents -- 25 A: Right.

1 Q: -- saying that he is on the trip, are 2 entirely consistent with you buying tickets for Mr. Jakobek, 3 which you as well say you didn't? 4 A: Correct. 5 6 (BRIEF PAUSE) 7 8 Q: Now, this is the second occasion that you 9 have chartered at Sky Charter? 10 A: Correct. 11 Q: Did you make arrangements personally with 12 Sky Charter to charter a jet to -- it was a jet wasn't it? 13 A: Pardon? 14 Q: It was a jet? 15 A: It -- yes, it was a jet. 16 Q: All right. It was a Leer Jet? 17 A: I don't know what it was. 18 Q: You -- you -- did you make arrangements 19 to charter a -- a jet, directly with Sky Charter? 20 A: I think I probably called them, yes, 21 because it was like getting on a bus, it wasn't like a major 22 screening session, or anything, it was -- 23 Q: Well, we've heard something of -- of the 24 routine before, in terms of the Montreal flight. I -- you -- 25 you would call them and would they ask you who was going to

1 be on the flight? 2 A: They would -- potential passengers, yes. 3 Q: All right, and you'd give them -- 4 A: And I would give them the names, yes. 5 Q: All right. And as you did in Montreal, 6 you would have notified the potential passengers or -- or 7 asked them to come along? 8 A: Yes. 9 Q: All right. So am I to take that if you 10 followed that routine, you notified m -- Mr. -- the two (2) 11 Peerenbooms? 12 A: Yes. 13 Q: Mr. Ginou? 14 A: Yes. 15 Q: Mr. Nigro? 16 A: Yeah. 17 Q: Mr. Jakobek? 18 A: Correct. 19 Q: And they all agreed to go on that flight? 20 A: Well, that particular flight, from what I 21 can recall, Mr. Peerenboom was -- like, a lot of talk about 22 him. He seemed like Mr. Toronto to me, Harbour Commission 23 and all that stuff so he was a guy that I wanted to get to 24 know at the time, also. Because there was a bridge, I 25 believe. He was talking quite a bit about it or I heard a

1 lot about it and I really wanted to get him there, obviously, 2 also. 3 Q: This was at th -- a playoff game? 4 A: I believe so. 5 Q: Right? You called Mr. Peerenboom and 6 invited him to jet off to -- to the Philadelphia game, all 7 expenses paid? 8 A: Yes. 9 Q: All right and I -- I take it that Mr. 10 Peerenboom accepted? 11 A: Yes, I've -- actually, I wanted him to be 12 the invitee to individuals -- I -- 13 Q: Yes. 14 A: On the flight, so. 15 Q: All right. Well, did you -- did you or 16 Mr. Peerenboom call Mr. Ginou? 17 A: I believe so. I believe he did. 18 Q: Which one? Mr. Peerenboom? 19 A: Yes. 20 Q: So I take it that somehow Mr. Peerenboom 21 or Mr. Ginou got back to you and said that -- 22 A: I -- 23 Q: -- Mr. Ginou was going? 24 A: I didn't know Mr. -- Mr. Ginou very well. 25 I knew Harold, actually. Peerenboom.

1 Q: All right. Did he get back to you, Mr. 2 Peerenboom, and say that Mr. Ginou had accepted your 3 invitation? 4 A: I can't remember if he got back to me. 5 He -- he must have, I mean, given the names, yes. 6 Q: Well, when you say he must have, he must 7 have if you told the -- the airline -- the air charter -- 8 A: Yes. 9 Q: -- service that Mr. Ginou was coming? 10 A: Correct. 11 Q: All right and Mr. Nigro, you called him 12 yourself? 13 A: Yeah. Vince usually I talked to on my 14 own. 15 Q: All right. So you called him and you 16 could confirm then to the airline that m -- Mr. Nigro was on? 17 A: Right. 18 Q: All right and the same with Mr. Jakobek? 19 Did you call him directly? 20 A: I -- I don't know if I called him 21 directly. 22 Q: Is it possible that Mr. -- you asked Mr. 23 Peerenboom to do that? 24 A: Yes. 25 Q: In any event, Mr. Peerenboom got back to

1 you or Mr. Jakobek got back to you and accepted the 2 invitation? 3 A: I can't recall, Mr. Manes. 4 Q: Well, as with previous people in 5 Montreal, when you notified the -- the airline -- 6 A: Yes. 7 Q: -- of the passenger list, these are 8 people that you would have -- that had accepted the 9 invitation? 10 A: Those were -- 11 Q: Is that right? 12 A: -- potential passengers, yes. 13 Q: These are people that had accepted your 14 invitations? 15 A: I -- I don't know if they accepted, but 16 they were potential passengers. 17 Q: Well, when you -- when you would tell 18 them about potential passengers, I take it you had some level 19 of confidence that they would be on the flight? 20 A: Hoping they would, yes. 21 Q: I'm talking about some level of 22 confidence -- 23 A: Su