1 2 3 TORONTO COMPUTER LEASING INQUIRY 4 5 6 7 ******************** 8 9 10 BEFORE: THE HONOURABLE MADAM JUSTICE DENISE BELLAMY, 11 COMMISSIONER 12 13 14 15 16 Held at: East York Civic Centre 17 850 Coxwell Avenue 18 Toronto, Ontario 19 M4C 5R1 20 21 ******************** 22 23 24 January 22nd, 2003 25

2
  1                        APPEARANCES
  2  Ronald Manes            )Commission Counsel 
  3  Patrick Moore  (np)     )
  4  Daina Groskaufmanis     ) 
  5  Linda Rothstein         )City of Toronto 
  6  Lily Harmer    (np)     )
  7  Robert Centa            )
  8  Gordon Capern  (np)     )
  9  David Moore             )MFP 
 10  Fraser Berrill (np)     ) 
 11  Ken Jones      (np)     ) 
 12  Brian Heller   (np)     )Ball Hsu and Associates Ltd.
 13  Melissa Kronick (np)    )CUPE 
 14  Raj Anand (np)          )Lana Viinamae
 15  Bay Ryley               )
 16  William Anderson        )Wanda Liczyk
 17  Valerie Dyer   (np)     )Dell Computers
 18  Jennifer Lynch (np)     )
 19  Edward Greenspan (np)   )Jeff Lyons
 20  Todd White (np)         )
 21  Hugh MacKenzie          )Jim Andrew
 22  Paul Cavalluzzo         )Dash Domi
 23  Benjamin Barnes         )
 24  
 25  Joyce Ihamaki           )Registrar

1 TABLE OF CONTENTS 2 Page 3 List of Exhibits 4 4 DASHNOR DOMI, Sworn 5 Examination-in-Chief by Mr. Ronald Manes 6 6 7 Certificate of Transcript 227 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25

1 EXHIBITS 2 No. Description Page 3 14 Bound Book of Documents 6 4 titled "Dash Domi" 5 Volume 1, Tabs 1 - 32 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25

5
  1  --- Upon commencing at 10:02 a.m.
  2  
  3                 THE REGISTRAR:   The inquiry is now in
  4  session.  Please be seated.
  5                 MADAM COMMISSIONER:  Mr. Manes are you ready
  6  to start with this witness?
  7                 MR. RONALD MANES:  Yes.  Thank you. 
  8                 MADAM COMMISSIONER:  All right.  Mr. Domi,
  9  would you like to swear on the bible or affirm to give your
 10  evidence?
 11  
 12                   DASHNOR DOMI, Sworn:
 13  
 14                 MADAM COMMISSIONER:  Now, just to let you know
 15  our procedures here, Mr. Domi, we have been -- we break at
 16  11:30 for about twenty (20) minutes.
 17                 THE WITNESS:  Okay.
 18                 MADAM COMMISSIONER:  And then we take a lunch
 19  break around 1:00 o'clock.  If you need a break before 11:30,
 20  you just let me know.
 21                 THE WITNESS:  Thank you. 
 22                 MADAM COMMISSIONER:  All right.   
 23                 Mr. Manes?
 24  
 25  EXAMINATION-IN-CHIEF BY MR. RONALD MANES:

1 Q: Good morning, Mr. Domi. 2 A: Good morning, Mr. Manes. 3 MR. RONALD MANES: Commissioner, I'm handing 4 up to you to be marked as Exhibit 14, Mr. Domi's document 5 book, which I understand Mr. Domi has reviewed. 6 MADAM COMMISSIONER: Thank you. 7 8 (BRIEF PAUSE) 9 10 --- EXHIBIT 14: Bound Book of Documents, titled "Dash Domi 11 Volume 1" Tabs 1 - 32 12 13 CONTINUED BY MR. RONALD MANES: 14 Q: Now, Mr. Domi, you went to work for MFP in 15 or around November of 1998? 16 A: Yes. 17 Q: As a sales representative in the 18 government unit? 19 A: Yes. 20 Q: And understand that you signed a contract? 21 A: Yes, I did. 22 Q: All right. And while we're here, that 23 contract is at Tab 2 of Irene Payne's documents, or Volume 2 24 of Irene Payne's documents at Tab 44. 25 Would you like to turn to that for a second?

1 A: What Tab was it, I'm sorry? 2 Q: That is Tab 44. 3 A: Okay. Okay. 4 Q: Now, that document is dated October 26th, 5 1998 -- I'm sorry, that document is actually dated October 6 23rd, 1998 and you sign it -- agree to it October 26th, 1998, 7 do you see that on the last page? 8 A: I'll get to that. Bear with me for a 9 second here -- oh yes, I do. Thank you. 10 Q: At -- you -- let me ask you the question 11 this way. You've read and understood that document? 12 A: Yes, I did. I didn't have to read it too 13 much actually, but I did read it. 14 Q: All right. We'll talk about that again. 15 A: Okay. 16 Q: At that time, you were a sales 17 representative in the government unit working on government 18 accounts? 19 A: Yes, I inherited a few government 20 accounts. 21 Q: All right. And I understand from Mr. 22 Wolfraim's evidence December 19th, that you were not 23 currently working on any accounts? 24 A: Currently now? 25 Q: That's correct.

1 A: Yes, no I'm not. 2 Q: As I understand it, to use his words, you 3 were restricted to working on Inquiry related matters? 4 A: That is I'd say true, but we've had a 5 large downsizing and there was some accounts that I spoke to 6 Mike Flanagan about that he wanted me to explore because 7 we've had a change in personnel from a year ago so -- 8 Q: Is the statement however true, that you 9 have been restricted -- 10 A: Yes -- 11 Q: -- to working on Inquiry related matters? 12 A: -- yes. 13 Q: All right. Mr. Wolfraim said, that in 14 discussions with you, that he had concluded that you had 15 falsified your expense accounts? 16 A: I don't know what the definition of 17 falsified expense accounts means. 18 Q: I'm just using the term that he used, 19 falsified expense accounts. Did you have a discussion with 20 Mr. Wolfraim about falsifying your expense accounts that lead 21 to you be restricted to working on Inquiry related matters? 22 A: What I told him was, there was instances 23 where there was a couple of names that, in particular, 24 individuals that names were on chits, but at the time I was 25 sourcing them out and I had no clients.

1 This was at the beginning of my job at MFP. 2 So, I was pursuing individuals as clients, because I had no 3 client base at the time. 4 Q: What -- do you disagree with the 5 characterization that Mr. Wolfraim put to it that he had a 6 discussion with you and that you had admitted falsifying your 7 -- 8 A: I -- 9 Q: -- expense records. 10 A: -- I never admitted falsifying expenses. 11 Q: All right. So I take it you disagree 12 with that? 13 A: I -- I -- generally I would, yes. 14 Q: All right. 15 MR. DAVID MOORE: Well, generally and -- and 16 I -- I don't want to -- I hope that I won't have to interject 17 but -- but -- to any great degree, but my recollection is 18 that Mr. Wolfraim made specific reference to a couple of 19 examples -- 20 MADAM COMMISSIONER: I -- I'm not sure that 21 you're -- you're -- is it on? Yes, it is. 22 MR. DAVID MOORE: It is on, I'm sorry. 23 MADAM COMMISSIONER: Yes. 24 MR. DAVID MOORE: My recollection is that Mr. 25 Wolfraim gave -- made specific reference to a couple of

1 examples. I -- I think his evidence was that he had not gone 2 through them line by line and -- and it just might be of 3 assistance if the witness were directed to that instead of to 4 -- to -- to this, kind of more general approach. 5 THE WITNESS: Yes. 6 MADAM COMMISSIONER: Mr. Manes? Mr. Manes? 7 MR. RONALD MANES: Yes, thank you, 8 Commissioner. 9 10 CONTINUED BY MR. RONALD MANES: 11 Q: Y -- you -- did you agree with Mr. Moore 12 and his statement? 13 A: Yeah, that's fine. You can -- 14 Q: That's fine with you? 15 A: Yes. 16 Q: All right. 17 MADAM COMMISSIONER: Would you tell me which 18 page you're at, Mr. Manes? 19 MR. RONALD MANES: Yes, I'm just reading the 20 entry, Commissioner. 21 22 (BRIEF PAUSE) 23 24 MR. RONALD MANES: This December 19th, 2002. 25 Page 126.

1 MADAM COMMISSIONER: Which line? 2 MR. RONALD MANES: Line 20. 3 THE WITNESS: How do I get to that, Mr. 4 Manes? 5 MR. RONALD MANES: I'll read it to you. 6 THE WITNESS: Oh. 7 MADAM COMMISSIONER: He'll -- 8 THE WITNESS: Oh, okay. 9 MADAM COMMISSIONER: He'll read it to you. 10 THE WITNESS: Thank you. 11 12 CONTINUED BY MR. RONALD MANES: 13 Q: To Page 128, Line 15. 14 15 (BRIEF PAUSE) 16 17 Q: "Q: Sir, do you have information in 18 respect to the expenses that Mr. Domi 19 submitted to your company that Mr. Domi 20 falsified those expenses? 21 A: Yeah. There are -- are situations in 22 reviewing Mr. Domi's expenses with him 23 where he has said that the names that 24 appear weren't -- weren't in attendance. 25 MADAM COMMISSIONER: I'm sorry, that he

1 said what? 2 THE WITNESS: That they weren't -- they 3 weren't -- they weren't as they appeared. 4 Where the people that he's -- he's named in 5 his -- in his receipts weren't there in -- 6 in -- from time to time. 7 Q: So the answer to the question is yes? 8 A: Yes. 9 Q: You have information from Mr. Domi 10 that he falsified expenses? 11 A: Yes." 12 Now, do you agree with those statements made 13 by -- 14 A: I agree -- 15 Q: -- Wolfraim? 16 A: -- with the statement saying -- Mr. 17 Wolfraim made about those individuals not being there but 18 where I disagree is at the time, those people were out 19 sourcing them or pursuing them as clients. So not 20 necessarily was I sitting in their presence. I agree with 21 him, yes but were they part of my mandate? Absolutely. 22 Q: Part of your mandate meaning that they're 23 part of City business? 24 A: Yes, or attempting to do City business 25 for that matter.

1 MADAM COMMISSIONER: Can you just help me 2 with what you mean by sourcing them? 3 THE WITNESS: I -- I'd say perhaps even 4 pursuing them -- the individuals, because I had no client 5 base at the time so. 6 MADAM COMMISSIONER: So y -- these were 7 people that you were -- would be wanting to meet with but 8 were not necessarily meeting with on the expense account? 9 THE WITNESS: Yeah. That's right. 10 MADAM COMMISSIONER: Okay. 11 THE WITNESS: Or I -- I -- or at the time of 12 that expense I was perhaps discussing with people who I 13 thought were -- had any insight into how the City works or 14 operates or giving me leads on who's who and who's what and 15 -- 16 MADAM COMMISSIONER: Okay. 17 18 CONTINUED BY MR. RONALD MANES: 19 Q: In -- in your mind, when making that -- 20 those entries, that was legitimate? 21 A: I -- y -- I felt that was legitimate, 22 yes. 23 Q: Would you agree that one who was reading 24 those entries, like myself -- 25 A: Yes.

1 Q: -- or your Counsel or Madam Commissioner, 2 that entry would create that impression that you were with 3 the person? 4 A: Yeah, I'd probably agree with that, yes. 5 Q: That impression would have been a false 6 impression because, in fact, you were not with that person? 7 A: Yes. 8 Q: And when making that entry, would you 9 agree with me, that a person reading that would be mis- 10 informed? 11 A: They'd probably mis-interpret what I'm 12 writing on there. 13 Q: They would interpret it naturally that 14 you're with that person? 15 A: Yes, yes. 16 Q: And when you were making that entry, would 17 you agree with me, sir, that you knew that someone reading it 18 would have the impression that you were with that person? 19 A: Yes, perhaps. 20 Q: And you agree with me that that would have 21 been a false impression that you conveyed? 22 A: I suppose. 23 Q: So would you agree with me, sir, that in 24 those instances we'll go through that you falsified your 25 expense account?

1 A: I was -- part of my agenda basically, 2 regarding my expenses and how I looked at my expenses, if I 3 may explain, was -- it was a tool for me to be able to do my 4 job. 5 Q: Was it part of your agenda to make false 6 entries in your expense account? 7 A: Was it part of my agenda, no. 8 Q: Was it part of your agenda to create the 9 impression that you were entertaining people that you were, 10 in fact, not entertaining? 11 A: I was entertaining several people and I 12 wanted to create or sell -- we have to sell our deals 13 internally, that I was in pursuit of doing my job. 14 Q: All right. So, can we just agree between 15 you and I, the bottom line here, is you were selling your 16 employer? 17 A: Yes, absolutely. 18 Q: In any event, as a result of these 19 discussions that you had with Mr. Wolfraim, am I right, that 20 you became restricted to working on Inquiry related matters? 21 A: Yes, in principle, yes. 22 Q: And am I right that you however, continue 23 to receive your draw? 24 A: Yes. 25 Q: That is how much a year?

1 A: A hundred and fifteen thousand (115,000), 2 I think. 3 Q: All right. And you continue to receive 4 your car allowance? 5 A: Yes. 6 Q: Do you continue to use your expense 7 account? 8 A: No, I have not. 9 Q: Was there some arrangement between you and 10 the company that you would not employ your expense account? 11 A: No, no one has ever told me not to use my 12 expenses or otherwise, it's a great company. 13 Q: All right. Now, we have something of when 14 you started with MFP and what your present working 15 relationship is with MFP. 16 Let me ask you some questions as to how you 17 came to MFP. 18 A: Okay. 19 Q: Can you give us the circumstances under 20 which you came to MFP? I understand it started with a golf 21 game? 22 A: Yes. 23 Q: At a golf tournament. 24 A: That's right. My brother and Dave Robson, 25 who formerly worked for us at MFP, golfed at a golf

1 tournament in Windsor, I believe, I'm not positive of that. 2 And at the time, I had just sold my interest 3 in my fitness club, which is at Yonge and St. Clair, that 4 people have discussed. 5 Q: Next to the flower store? 6 A: No, actually it's two (2) blocks away from 7 there. 8 Q: Oh, all right. 9 A: It's right a the corner of Yonge and St. 10 Clair. The flower store is two (2) blocks east of Yonge and 11 St. Clair. 12 And I had just sold my interest, which was 13 probably July of '98. And I was considering opening up 14 another facility, Lennox Lewis was my partner. I was the 15 owner operator. 16 We started from scratch and we were fairly 17 successful. Anyway we had our differences in the directions 18 we were going. I didn't want to take orders from Lennox's 19 overseas accountants and lawyers, who thought they knew 20 anything about the fitness business. 21 So, we just parted ways. In the interim, I 22 wasn't doing very much. I owned a yogurt shop in Forest 23 Hill. A small little place, which I think you know. 24 My brother -- and I was considering opening up 25 another facility which -- because I built up a large

1 clientele there and had a good relationship with most of 2 them. That's probably about thirteen hundred (1,300) people. 3 And my -- I talked to my brother about opening 4 m -- up another facility and he said he met a guy and I was 5 concerned about fitness equipment and leasing fitness 6 equipment. Like, you know, you've got to get a leasing 7 company to lease you the equipment and he said, Dash I met a 8 guy coincidentally at a golf tournament who's in the leasing 9 business. He said why don't you give him a call, so I did. 10 Q: Let -- let me just stop you there. Did 11 you speak with your brother -- I take it that's Tie? 12 A: Yes. 13 Q: Did you -- did you speak with Tie about 14 what kind of leasing business MFP was in? 15 A: No. He -- he wouldn't have a clue, I 16 mean. 17 Q: All right. 18 A: He wouldn't have a clue about that. 19 Q: So -- 20 A: He probably still doesn't know what MFP 21 does. 22 Q: All right. So this was just a lead? 23 A: Yeah, it was -- yeah, it was just lead. 24 Q: Were you -- were you looking for a job? 25 A: I was kind of in transition. I was

1 pretty fixated on the fitness business which I have a -- I -- 2 I love. 3 Q: You gave Dave Robson a call? 4 A: Yes, I did. 5 Q: All right. Tell us what you discussed 6 with -- 7 A: Well, -- 8 Q: -- with Mr. Robson? 9 A: When I talked to Dave, he -- we met -- I 10 called him and we exchanged calls a few times. He's a very 11 busy guy. I went down to see him and we just kind of 12 clicked. 13 He was a hockey guy and he kind of carried on 14 about hockey quite a bit and he was very -- he was -- he was 15 going through some personal issues with his family at the 16 time. So he told me about it. So I thought that was a 17 little much but that was okay and we just started talking 18 about everything in general and he told me he was very 19 successful with the company. 20 He said that MFP was one (1) of the secret 21 success stories in Canada -- in Ontario, I mean, we're -- 22 nobody ever heard of us with the amount of volume the 23 business we did. 24 And he kind of just kind of sold me on MFP a 25 little bit and he asked me if ha -- what he said to me was,

1 sales is the greatest business. Sales, sales. Like he was 2 the epitome of a salesman and we t -- we ended up chatting 3 for probably about an hour and a half and he said to me, he 4 said, Dash have you ever been in sales and I said well, not 5 particularly. I guess -- I mean, sales is sales. 6 He said well, we just let go a few guys and 7 why don't you get me your resume and I'll get it to the 8 senior vice president and see what happens and said well I -- 9 I don't know what you guys do. I have no clue on technology 10 leasing and he said, well not necessarily the guys that know 11 about technology leasing or leasing per se, are the 12 successful guys in this business. 13 He -- he said to me we're a company based on 14 build -- we're a relationship company and he was actually 15 very -- very good about it. He took me through the whole MFP 16 philosophy. 17 Q: Was it your impression that he was very 18 influential at MFP including whether you'd be hired or not? 19 A: Not particularly. I mean, he -- he 20 talked -- I don't know if he was influential at the time. He 21 told me about the magnitude of the deals he was working on 22 but I -- I didn't know either way. I mean, I -- I couldn't 23 read on -- th -- we didn't -- I didn't see anybody. I sat in 24 his office. I didn't have a clue. It was just a basic 25 office. It wasn't anything flashy.

1 Q: Did you have any sense of -- of how much 2 this job would pay? 3 A: No. We never talked about money or 4 anything like that but he had told me that he -- he had made 5 a great living at MFP for years and he was very -- a very big 6 MFP fan, that's for sure. He was -- he told me he was like, 7 I don't know, tenth employee or something like that. 8 Q: And you told us everything that -- that - 9 - that he told you about MFP and about himself? 10 A: He -- yeah, he was -- he actually, I -- I 11 remember one (1) thing about it. He -- he called himself a 12 big game hunter. 13 Q: Big game hunter? 14 A: Yeah, so. 15 Q: What did you think of that? 16 A: Well, I don't know if it was just a guy 17 tooted -- tooting his own horn or -- but he was a very nice 18 guy, so. 19 Q: Well, you're obviously somebody that 20 people like talking to -- 21 A: Yes -- 22 Q: -- did you talk to him about yourself? 23 A: Yeah, I told him about myself. 24 Q: Tell us what you told him about you, Mr. 25 Domi, so we know the 1998 Dash Domi?

1 A: Prior to '98? 2 Q: No, just what I meant by that was, tell us 3 what you told him about yourself? 4 A: I told him that I cut hair years ago and 5 to be cutting hair and doing it well, you've got to be as 6 good as salesman as anybody to be able to succeed at that 7 business. 8 And I told him about my fitness club. And how 9 hard I worked to built that from scratch. So, I mean I just 10 -- I mean I'm not afraid of challenges and I won't be 11 outworked. So, I think he like to hear that. 12 Q: And I take it you'd like to hear that this 13 was a relationship company? 14 A: Yes, I did like to hear that, but, I 15 didn't necessarily think there was -- or know that there was 16 opportunity for me, at the time. 17 He had told me that they had let some people 18 go, but I just was not clear -- nothing was defined to me. 19 Q: Well, was it your point with him to at 20 least tell him about you, that you were a strong relationship 21 builder? 22 A: Yes, absolutely. 23 Q: And you discussed how you built your 24 clientele at the gym? 25 A: Yes.

1 Q: And you discussed your strengths generally 2 at building relationships? 3 A: Yes. 4 Q: Discuss any politics? 5 A: No. 6 Q: Discuss any of your relationships that 7 could be of assistance to MFP? 8 A: No. 9 Q: Was there any discussion about this -- 10 about the sales job being with the government unit? 11 A: Actually he wasn't very clear on it. He 12 had just told me MFP had let go a couple of guys. A large 13 portion of our business was in government and also in private 14 sector. 15 So, he kind of just gave me a quick run down 16 on the company, I wasn't very clear on where or if there was 17 a fit, so. 18 Q: I take it that you both agreed that making 19 and maintaining relationships is the key to a good salesman, 20 salesperson -- 21 A: Yes -- 22 Q: -- and key to a successful business? 23 A: Yes. 24 Q: Certainly was the key to MFP's business 25 according to that conversation?

1 A: Yes. 2 Q: Certainly was the key to the success in 3 your previous business at the gym? 4 A: Oh, I just did my best, I don't know and 5 other people's eyes, I mean, what's successful, what isn't, 6 but just doing my best. 7 Q: All right. And I take it with that, when 8 you went to work for MFP, you did your best? 9 A: Absolutely. 10 Q: All right. Let's just step back for a 11 moment, because I want to understand something about your 12 background. First of all, how old are you? 13 A: I'm thirty seven (37). 14 Q: All right. You'd have been thirty three 15 (33), thirty four (34) at the time of this interview? 16 A: Yes. 17 Q: Now, you gave us some sketch about -- 18 about your background, but tell me can you -- what was your 19 education? 20 A: I went to school in Belle River, Ontario. 21 Q: Yes. 22 A: And I graduated from there. 23 Q: Grade? 24 A: Thirteen (13). 25 Q: All right.

1 A: And I was -- I was thinking about going to 2 University, but I just didn't have the discipline to do it at 3 the time, I felt. 4 So, I got into -- I went to hairdressing 5 school in Toronto, just to get out of the town. 6 Q: What year would that have been? 7 A: That would have been in '84 or '85, I 8 believe. 9 Q: What attracted you to hairdressing school? 10 A: I have an uncle that's very successful in 11 Ottawa. 12 Q: All right. 13 A: And I always call him the rich barber. 14 Q: All right. 15 A: The rich foreign barber. So, he was 16 inspirational. 17 Q: So for you hairdressing was an 18 entrepreneurial opportunity? 19 A: Yeah. There was a few in our family that 20 were successful. 21 Q: All right. Now, how long did you go to 22 hairdressing school? 23 A: It was a year. The course was a year. 24 Q: That's in Toronto? 25 A: Yes.

1 Q: And then what did you do from there? 2 A: Actually, when I went to hairdressing 3 school I started to work in a salon downtown, it was called 4 Looks, about three (3) months into my -- starting my course. 5 So I was going to s -- taking the hairdressing course and 6 working in a salon on Yonge at the time. 7 Q: All right and after you graduated? 8 A: I continued to work there. 9 Q: How long did you work at Looks? 10 A: I worked at Looks for eleven (11) years. 11 Q: So that would take you to...? 12 A: I left Looks I'd say in '90 -- I don't 13 know if it was quite '94 yet. 14 Q: Would you consider yourself, at Looks, a 15 successful hairdresser? 16 A: Yes. 17 Q: And what was the secret to your success? 18 A: Well -- 19 Q: -- would you say. 20 A: -- a successful hairdresser, right. I 21 don't really know what people base success on but I wasn't 22 sitting around like the rest twiddling my thumbs or 23 gossiping. I was -- if I was in there working or doing 24 something productive, I just didn't -- I'm not the type that 25 feels fulfilled.

1 Q: You had a following? 2 A: Yes. 3 Q: A clientele? 4 A: Yes. 5 Q: Developed over eleven (11) years? 6 A: Yes. 7 Q: Had positive relationships with these 8 clients? 9 A: Yes. Absolutely. Yeah, they get to be 10 friendly over -- I mean, you see someone every eight (8) 11 weeks over time, they get to be friendly with you and 12 divorces and divorces and kids and all that. 13 Q: They learned to -- to trust you over 14 time? 15 A: Yes. 16 Q: You have confidential conversations with 17 them that they assume are not going to be shared with anyone 18 else? 19 A: Right. You work hard at that. 20 Q: And I take it that there was a mutual 21 loyalty and -- and trust with your clients? 22 A: Absolutely. 23 Q: That was part of the key of -- for your 24 success? 25 A: Yes. I'm very -- I'm just -- if you knew

1 our family, we're very loyal people so. 2 MADAM COMMISSIONER: I -- I missed that last 3 part. Sorry. 4 THE WITNESS: I said. I'm -- I'm loyal but I 5 -- if you knew our family -- 6 MADAM COMMISSIONER: Oh, okay. 7 THE WITNESS: -- we're very loyal. 8 MADAM COMMISSIONER: Okay. 9 THE WITNESS: So anyone that knows me knows 10 that. 11 12 CONTINUED BY MR. RONALD MANES: 13 Q: 1994, approximately, you leave Looks? 14 A: Yes. 15 Q: And what do you do? 16 A: Well, what happened at Looks was I -- at 17 the time, I was very busy but I just didn't feel like I was 18 fulfilled in what I was doing, mentally, per se. Seeing 19 fifteen (15), fourteen (14) clients a day is -- was just -- 20 exciting, I guess, but it's not everything and I wanted to do 21 something a little more stimulating so I -- I start working 22 with my cousin, he owned a printing company, as a sales rep. 23 Q: Fred -- 24 A: Fred -- 25 Q: -- Freddy Pristine?

1 A: Yes. Well, not my c -- he's a very close 2 family friend. I won't say that he's my cousin but -- and 3 Fred wanted me to -- he always would say Dash you're -- 4 you're a sales guy. What are you doing, you know and I went 5 to work with him for, I'd say a year. 6 Q: Did you have a title? 7 A: Sales -- I don't know. I mean. not 8 really. Just salesman. 9 Q: All right and you sold printing? 10 A: Off sheet -- yes. 11 Q: All right. 12 A: Sheet fed printing, yes. 13 Q: Did that for about a year? 14 A: I did that for about a year but in that 15 year period I was working at the -- the idea of my -- my gym 16 came up so we -- I was kind of -- besides doing the printing, 17 I was kind of exploring the fitness club. 18 Q: And ultimately you left to establish your 19 own club? 20 A: Yes. 21 Q: Is that what happened? 22 A: I -- I was doing that in -- yes -- I did 23 do that. 24 Q: When I say left, you formally just left 25 Pristine Printing and --

1 A: Yes -- 2 Q: -- went into business with Lennox Lewis? 3 A: Yes. 4 Q: Did Tie have anything to do with that? 5 A: Tie did not have interest in the facility, 6 but he was very supportive and helpful and he helped me out 7 quite a bit, just with PR and association with me, we're 8 brothers after all. So, sometimes good, sometimes bad. 9 Q: Here it was good? 10 A: Yeah, very much so. 11 Q: All right. The -- Lennox Lewis, was he on 12 the front line, so to speak, of the business, or was he in 13 the background? 14 A: He was -- he was completely in the 15 background. He -- I was the guy in the line of fire. I 16 hired, recruited many people. We started from zero, from 17 scratch and we ended up employing part-time, full-time about 18 forty (40) people, give or take, when I left. 19 Q: Thirteen hundred (1300) clients? 20 A: Yeah, roughly, at the time. I don't know 21 what they have now. 22 Q: Now, would you say that your success of 23 that business had to do at least in part with your ability to 24 develop those clients? 25 A: Well developing those clients was not --

1 people come in, you sell them on your facility. But in that 2 particular field of work, it's like anything. 3 It's one (1) thing to get clients and 4 everybody knows how difficult that is. But, more importantly 5 it's -- the hardest thing is to keep them and service them to 6 the best of your ability, I guess. 7 Q: That's the -- actually my next question. 8 How did you go about keeping these -- these clients and 9 building your clientele up to thirteen hundred (1300)? 10 A: We did a lot of flyers and if you live in 11 the area, you probably got some stuff from us. And we worked 12 very, very hard at -- it was a soft sell, we never pushed 13 anybody, which some other facilities do, obviously everybody 14 knows that. 15 We basically thought that our facility would 16 sell itself, the friendly atmosphere, clean. 17 Q: What was the name of the -- 18 A: Life Support. 19 Q: Life Support. When you say, "we", aren't 20 you really saying, you and your employees if Lewis was in the 21 background? 22 A: I'm sorry? 23 Q: You're the one (1), that's the directing 24 mind and will behind these marketing operations and the 25 philosophy behind the club?

1 A: Well, we worked as a team, I mean I never 2 got total credit for that, nor would I. I mean it's -- we 3 collectively worked as a team. 4 I mean everybody had input, we're a young 5 group of people and everybody had input in everything. So we 6 worked as a team, it wasn't just me, no, by no means. 7 Q: I guess my only observation is that given 8 your strength in developing relationships, would you say that 9 you developed positive relationships with your staff? 10 A: Yes, absolutely. 11 Q: And would you say that you developed as 12 much as humanly possible positive relationships with your 13 clientele? 14 A: As best I could. Positive relationships 15 and keeping them, so, you know, trying to make them feel like 16 -- we had member's appreciation days and stuff like that. We 17 had parties at our club. 18 So, it was just, I wanted to people to feel 19 like they were home there. It wasn't like a -- it was a 20 destination. It wasn't necessarily they were going to their 21 fitness club. 22 Q: How long were you -- did you have the gym? 23 A: I left there in July '98. 24 Q: What happened? 25 A: We had a difference of opinion. Not

1 particularly Lennox and I because we had a very good 2 relationship, but as he was growing into superstardom, his 3 people around him were getting more and more control over his 4 decisions. 5 We had a very good relationship, Lennox and I, 6 consider him part of my family, basically and I'm sure he 7 felt like that about me. But it just got to the point where 8 his guys were coming from England and attempting to tell me 9 how to run my business. 10 And they had no clue on it -- what it took for 11 our business to prosper, being an accountant who --who he 12 fired. 13 MADAM COMMISSIONER: I'm sorry? 14 THE WITNESS: He was -- Lennox -- he handled 15 all of Lennox's money at the time so he made a lot of 16 decisions in Lennox's -- Lennox actually fired him. 17 MADAM COMMISSIONER: Oh, I see. Okay. 18 THE WITNESS: They went to court and stuff. 19 MADAM COMMISSIONER: Now, did you -- did you 20 know Lennox Lewis before you started this club or -- 21 THE WITNESS: Actually, no. I -- I -- I met 22 Lennox Lewis through a friend of his, basically. 23 MADAM COMMISSIONER: Okay. 24 THE WITNESS: And we just -- his friend and I 25 -- actually a friend of mine and I had an idea so we

1 discussed it with Lennox Lew -- a friend Lennox Lewis' and he 2 was very interested in opening up a business in Canada 3 because he has a home in Brampton. 4 MADAM COMMISSIONER: Okay. 5 THE WITNESS: His mom lives here year-round. 6 MR. RONALD MANES: Who was that friend? 7 THE WITNESS: Barry Hutchison. 8 MADAM COMMISSIONER: And -- and -- and -- 9 this is going to be an embarrassing for me to ask and I 10 actually know the answer -- 11 THE WITNESS: That's okay. 12 MADAM COMMISSIONER: -- but just for the 13 purposes of -- of our -- our record, could you tell us who 14 Lennox Lewis is. 15 THE WITNESS: He is a boxer. 16 MADAM COMMISSIONER: I know but I just want 17 it for -- 18 THE WITNESS: Okay. 19 MADAM COMMISSIONER: -- you know, historic 20 purposes. 21 22 CONTINUED BY MR. RONALD MANES: 23 Q: What's Lennox Lewis' status in the boxing 24 world now? 25 A: He's the heavyweight champion of the

1 world. 2 Q: All right. I think the Commissioner was 3 looking -- 4 A: Oh, I'm sorry. 5 MADAM COMMISSIONER: No. No. N -- I -- I -- 6 MR. RONALD MANES: Oh, all right. 7 MADAM COMMISSIONER: I have to think in terms 8 of -- of the record and many years from now if people are 9 looking into this and they'll say well who is this Lennox 10 Lewis. I'm sure they'll all know but I just -- I just want 11 it for that purpose and nothing else. I already knew he was 12 a boxer. Even I know that. 13 14 (BRIEF PAUSE) 15 16 CONTINUED BY MR. RONALD MANES: 17 Q: The -- you said you had a resume that 18 Dave Robson said to -- 19 A: Yes. 20 Q: -- bring in? Do you have a copy of that 21 resume? 22 A: I don't, no -- with me but I may be able 23 to hopefully drum that up somewhere. 24 Q: If you could ask your Counsel or if you 25 could --

1 A: Sure. 2 Q: -- drum that up. So I -- excuse me if I 3 ask you questions based on what -- 4 A: No, that's fine. 5 Q: All right. This is what resumes look -- 6 generally look like. Did you have any help writing this 7 resume or just -- 8 A: Yes. 9 Q: All right. Is it a professional? 10 A: No. 11 Q: All right. Somebody who -- I don't want 12 the name. Somebody who presumably knew what they were doing 13 at writing resumes? 14 A: I don't know if about writing resumes but 15 they just -- I actually when -- getting back to the resume. 16 When Dave asked me get me -- Dash, why don't you get me a 17 resume and I'll hand in here for you. I said well Dave, I 18 don't -- I don't know what I could give you. I mean, I don't 19 -- I don't have much experience in anything but two (2) 20 things. 21 He said that's okay, just -- just get it -- 22 get it to me. 23 Q: What two (2) things? 24 A: I cut hair for years and -- well, three 25 (3) things. I mean, I worked at Pristine's for, I think a

1 year and my -- my fitness club, so. 2 Q: In any event, you sought some assistance 3 and you developed a resume that you gave to MFP? 4 A: To -- yes. I -- actually, I faxed it in 5 to Dave, I believe. 6 Q: Okay. 7 A: I'm not sure of that actually. 8 Q: All right. You do know that you have a 9 copy of that or -- or not? 10 A: I -- I am not sure. 11 Q: All right. So let me just use my 12 understanding of resumes and ask you some questions. 13 A: Okay. 14 Q: On -- on this resume, it talked about 15 your -- your educational background? 16 A: Yes. 17 Q: Grade 13, et cetera? 18 A: Right. 19 Q: It talked about your work experience? 20 A: Yes. 21 Q: It talked about the gym, the yogurt -- 22 A: I didn't -- 23 Q: -- stand. 24 A: No, I didn't put the yogurt in. 25 Q: All right. The gym, hairdressing --

1 A: Right. 2 Q: -- your most significant work experience. 3 A: Right. 4 Q: You talked about your skills? 5 A: Yes. 6 Q: What skills did you say you had? 7 A: Well, I'm a people person. 8 Q: Did you use those words, do you rec -- c 9 -- call? 10 A: I -- I can't recall. 11 Q: In any event, you wanted to convey that 12 understanding -- 13 A: Yeah, I mean, I just -- 14 Q: -- somehow? 15 A: -- I wanted to convey what I am. 16 Q: What's that mean, a people person? 17 A: I -- I enjoy building relationships and 18 being around people most of the time. I just think that -- I 19 don't know, it's a reflection of yourself on building 20 relationships. How difficult that is to do and I -- it's 21 just part of my persona. I just like meeting people all the 22 time. 23 Q: And you tried to convey that in words in 24 your resume, as far as you can recall? 25 A: I think it was -- yeah, it was very

1 simple. I just wanted the opportunity to meet -- well, given 2 the opportunity to meet the decision maker, I mean, I 3 believed I could convey my -- myself to them. 4 Q: All right. 5 A: So, that's okay. 6 Q: Now, just going from again, understanding 7 what's on these -- on these resumes, did you talk about your 8 interests? 9 A: Perhaps a little bit, yes. 10 Q: All right. What -- what do you recall 11 were the interests that you talked about? 12 A: Interest as in -- not hobbies, but just 13 what interests me? I -- 14 Q: You talk about working out -- 15 A: -- I work out, yes, I like sports, but -- 16 I am very driven, and I'm a result oriented person. 17 Q: Well, did you talk about your -- any 18 interest in politics? 19 A: No. 20 Q: On these resumes they sometime ask for -- 21 or sometimes put down strengths, my main strength is, or 22 something like that. Do you recall anything like that in 23 your resume? 24 A: No. 25 Q: All right. If you were to have that in

1 your resume, what would you have said about your main 2 strength? 3 A: Driven. 4 5 (BRIEF PAUSE) 6 7 Q: The -- when you talk about you enjoy 8 building relationships, enjoy being around people. I take it 9 that the bottom line is you like people and -- 10 A: Yes. 11 Q: -- people like you? 12 A: Yes. 13 Q: You would have many friends? 14 A: Yes. 15 Q: And I take it from your background and -- 16 and your interest in people, it'd be a very wide variety of 17 friends? 18 A: Yes, very wide. 19 Q: People that you've met in business, 20 people that you met socially, et cetera? 21 A: Yes. 22 Q: Ms. Payne described you as -- as 23 charming, charismatic, and personable. Would you agree with 24 that description? 25 A: I don't know, I mean, that's -- I don't

1 really like to talk about myself, so -- 2 Q: Well, I know it makes you blush a bit, 3 but do you think that you're charming, charismatic, and 4 personable? 5 A: That's for other people to decide, I mean 6 not myself really. 7 Q: When you met with Ms. Payne -- 8 A: Yes. 9 Q: -- would you be surprised if she came out 10 of the meeting being of the view that you were charming, 11 charismatic, and personable? 12 A: I don't know, I -- we -- we spoke quite a 13 bit about a wide variety of issues, but would I be surprised? 14 Well, I guess, no. 15 Q: Being charming, charismatic, and 16 personable, is -- is an asset for a salesperson isn't it? 17 A: I suppose. 18 Q: All right. Nothing to be ashamed of? 19 A: Yeah, I mean I just -- I don't think that 20 helps you. It helps you, but can you carry through being 21 charming, charismatic, I mean you could have a lot of the 22 tools, but -- 23 Q: It doesn't help you with the substance of 24 the person? 25 A: No.

1 (BRIEF PAUSE) 2 3 Q: Now, to the point that you went with MFP, 4 and your assets were -- or strength as you put it, and main 5 strength that you were driven, and that you were a 6 relationship guy? 7 A: Yes. 8 Q: Could you tell me how do you go about 9 building relationships? I'm talking prior to MFP, just 10 generally how do you, sir, go about building relationships? 11 A: Well, I -- I guess I have to give all the 12 credit to my hairdressing days really. And I -- I wanted to 13 mention this in the Inquiry. 14 As a hairdresser, you have to get to know 15 strangers every day. If you don't have that skill, and you 16 can't acquire that skill by working daily with strange people 17 or new clients recommended to you, you'll be out of that 18 business very quickly. 19 So, I think it was a skill that I acquired 20 over time in building relationships, getting to know someone, 21 understanding when to back off or when there's sensitive 22 issues or -- 23 Q: You're certainly not afraid to befriend 24 people? 25 A: No.

1 Q: And when you talk about building 2 relationships, you're talking about befriending people? 3 A: Yes. 4 Q: And I take it, and just going back to 5 your -- to your hairdressing days, and something that we 6 discussed, it has to do with trust and loyalty? 7 A: Right. 8 Q: Confidence, or confidentiality, help 9 people with problems? 10 A: Not necessarily, I mean I don't really 11 get involved in people's problems unless they -- you know, I 12 just -- 13 Q: Unless they ask you? 14 A: -- well, I don't even -- I like to stay 15 away from personal issues and stuff like that. I like to 16 stick to the business of the day, or issues of the day. 17 Q: It's interesting that Mr. Robson, after 18 just an hour and a half of meeting with you, shared his 19 personal problems with you? 20 A: Yeah, that's -- that's true. He -- I 21 don't know if it was just that he was having a bad day, or he 22 -- he told me -- I guess goes back to my hairdressing days, 23 he told me his life story in probably twenty (20) minutes. 24 He wasn't an easy guy to get to know. 25 MADAM COMMISSIONER: Was or was not?

1 THE WITNESS: Was not. 2 MADAM COMMISSIONER: Was not. 3 4 CONTINUED BY MR. RONALD MANES: 5 Q: But you did get to know him? 6 A: On a surface basis, but he was -- he was 7 a guy that kept his cards very close to his chest. 8 Q: Generally in your relationships you do 9 like to get to know people better? 10 A: Yes, I work at that, yes. 11 Q: All right, and if they have a problem and 12 bring that problem to your attention, whether it's personal 13 or business, you'll certainly not walk away from it, you'll 14 try to help them with it? 15 A: Do my best. 16 Q: All right. 17 A: As I always do. 18 Q: With -- like most friendly relationships, 19 there would be mutual interests? 20 A: Some cases, but I mean I can adapt to 21 basically anything, anywhere you put me, I can probably adapt 22 to any situation I'm thrown into. 23 Q: If someone has an interest that doesn't 24 interest you, it's sort of nice to get involved with a new 25 thing?

1 A: Yes. 2 Q: All right. And if they do have an 3 interest that interests you, you can enjoy it even more? 4 A: Absolutely. 5 Q: Sports? 6 A: Right. 7 Q: Hockey? 8 A: Yeah, and I'm talking about hockey more 9 than I like most of the time. 10 Q: I guess that's because -- because you 11 like hockey, but your brother happens to play it? 12 A: In Toronto, yes. 13 Q: In Toronto. 14 A: I can't get away from that. 15 Q: In Toronto you can't get away from 16 talking about -- talking about hockey? 17 A: No. 18 Q: All right. 19 20 (BRIEF PAUSE) 21 22 Q: With friends, you go to social events, 23 sporting events? 24 A: Yes. 25 Q: Special events?

1 A: Yes. 2 Q: Birthdays, Christmas? 3 A: Yes. 4 Q: All right. 5 A: I always usually have -- I'm not one (1) 6 to go places alone, I always have people with me or... 7 I think people attract people, so. 8 Q: And just -- that just makes you feel 9 good? 10 A: Yeah. 11 Q: Being sort of at the centre of all these 12 relationships and being with all these people? 13 A: I wouldn't say at the centre, but I -- I 14 like to bring people together and people to network with each 15 other, because I mean it's been done for me, so I -- I know 16 how important it is in life that people get to know each 17 other. 18 Q: Now, relationships can be different -- 19 different degrees, you can have an acquaintance, and you can 20 have a very strong relationship? 21 A: Yes. 22 Q: Let's talk about that just -- just for a 23 moment, and I'm talking about prior to MFP, just talking 24 about your -- 25 A: Okay.

1 Q: -- your way about you, and -- and 2 building relationships, and -- and your beliefs -- 3 A: Right. 4 Q: -- about them? You can have a casual 5 relationship where you just say hello to somebody, perhaps on 6 a first name basis, cordial? 7 A: Yes. 8 Q: You can have a more familiar relationship 9 with a person, you see them frequently, you develop trust, 10 mutual interests? 11 A: Yes. 12 Q: And so on. That can develop into strong 13 relationships? 14 A: Sure. 15 Q: That can go onto to develop into very 16 strong relationships? 17 A: Sure, it's possible. 18 Q: Very strong relationships meaning that you 19 really do trust one (1) another? 20 A: I'd like to think so. 21 Q: All right. And you're loyal? 22 A: Yes. Loyalty means -- if you have no 23 loyalty, you've got nothing. 24 Q: Loyalty is the foundation of every strong 25 relationship, isn't it?

1 A: I don't know, I mean you've just -- I 2 suppose, yes. 3 Q: All right. Mr. Domi, when you went to 4 interview with Irene Payne -- 5 A: Yes. 6 Q: -- did you arrange that directly? 7 A: I believe I faxed my resume over to Dave 8 Robson, I just can't remember, actually. But I'm pretty sure 9 that her office would have called me at the time, her 10 secretary. 11 Q: All right. And you went in and had a 12 talk? 13 A: Yes and I went in and had a chat. One (1) 14 thing I do remember about it, I -- I wasn't in a suit and 15 tie, I was a little -- I was very casual and -- 16 Q: That's interesting. I was going to ask 17 you that and I decided I wasn't going to ask you that. You 18 went in casual -- 19 A: I went in casual and actually my brother 20 gave me a hard time about that. I remember that very 21 clearly. 22 Q: Well when you looked around were people 23 dressed casually? 24 A: Yeah, it was pretty -- I didn't really see 25 a lot of people, it's a very quiet, laid back atmosphere at

1 MFP, it's a great place. 2 Q: Before going in there, did you do any 3 research, did you go on the Net to find out about MFP, get 4 any literature, talk to anybody? 5 A: No. 6 Q: So, you went in basically, after talking - 7 - 8 A: Yes. 9 Q: -- to Dave Robson, cold turkey? 10 A: Just because I didn't know what the 11 outcome would be. I mean given the opportunity, I just 12 thought it was going to be, as I always like to say, round 13 table discussion. 14 And I didn't know if she probably -- if she 15 was going to say, well listen, you have no experience in this 16 field. Thanks anyway. 17 Q: Tell me something, Mr. Domi, if you were a 18 betting man, would you have bet that you'd have gotten that 19 job, before going in? 20 A: Yes. 21 Q: What gave you the sense that you could get 22 that job? 23 A: Just being able to get in front of the 24 right audience. If she was the right person, I would 25 probably tell her I would do the best I could for the Company

1 and whatever I was told to do to the best of my ability. I'd 2 give it everything I had. 3 Q: Every kid off the street comes into a new 4 job interview and says, I'll give it my all -- 5 A: Yes -- 6 Q: -- so on and so forth and try to be 7 charming and charismatic, et cetera, but what made you think 8 that you were going to be any different? 9 A: Just believed in myself. 10 Q: You said if you got the right person. 11 What do you mean by the right person? 12 A: Well, when I say right person, I mean if 13 she was the one (1) who was doing the hiring, I would do my 14 best to -- if that was -- but at the time I really did not 15 know if this was something for me. 16 I was just going into discuss with her 17 opportunity. And I was not sure of the role or how or what, 18 at the time. I really had no clue going in. 19 Q: Do you have this confidence that you can 20 sell anybody anything? 21 A: Oh, no, no. 22 Q: Where did this confidence come from, that 23 if you got the right person, you could get this job? 24 A: I would probably try and convey to them 25 that I was the right person for it.

1 Q: I appreciate that, but just tell me why 2 you had this confidence? 3 A: I don't know, I can't even explain it. 4 Q: Can't explain it? All right. Did it have 5 anything to do with the comfort level that you had with Dave 6 Robson? 7 A: No, I just met with Dave once, so I didn't 8 -- the next time I met -- I went to MFP was with I -- I met 9 with Irene and I don't know if it was Peter that day or not. 10 Q: Did it have anything to do with the fact 11 that this was a relationship company in that description? Is 12 that perhaps a contributor to your confidence? 13 A: It was -- it's a company that you, 14 essentially, could build your own business within a business. 15 MFP gives the opportunity to build a business within the 16 company and that's what Dave had conveyed to me. 17 Q: Now, I'm talking about this confidence 18 before you -- 19 A: Okay. 20 Q: -- you came in but l -- let me stay with 21 where you are. You had no real education or experience in 22 finance? 23 A: No. 24 Q: Leasing? 25 A: No.

1 Q: IT? 2 A: No. 3 Q: Asset management? 4 A: No. 5 Q: I mean, did you even know what asset 6 management was other than what you did at the gym? 7 A: No. 8 Q: All right. No formal sales experience? 9 A: No. I -- well, I mean sales experience 10 is -- depends on what you consider sales experience. 11 Q: I'm talking about formal sales 12 experience. You had never been -- 13 A: Like -- 14 Q: -- employed as a sales person and 15 developed an approach to sales in a -- in a -- 16 A: I think -- yeah, I acquired those skills 17 over years of doing different different things. 18 Q: So you had experience in sales in effect, 19 that's what you're -- 20 A: Yes. Absolutely. 21 Q: All right. You'd never worked in a 22 corporate culture? 23 A: No. Never. 24 Q: You wouldn't have any idea of, other than 25 common sense, about business standards, how public companies

1 conduct themselves, things like that? 2 A: No. 3 Q: All right. So my sense is that you -- 4 you have a discussion with Dave Robson, you're walking into a 5 meeting with a person you don't know in the company, Irene 6 Payne, but you have this confidence that you can -- if you 7 get that right -- if she's the right person, you can get the 8 job and I guess -- I -- back to the same question. What -- 9 A: I -- I -- I -- 10 Q: -- gave you -- 11 A: -- I don't know if it was confidence in 12 getting the position but I have to, at least to myself, try 13 and build some confidence in going into anything. I mean, I 14 -- I will not go into anything that's -- I may not succeed 15 but I'll -- I'll go in with confidence. If I fail, I fail. 16 Q: You basically felt that -- confident that 17 if you got this job, you could do this job whatever the heck 18 the job was? 19 A: Well, firstly, it -- Dave had got me very 20 -- because Dave, he -- he told that MFP preached 21 entrepreneurship, and which it does, it's -- like I said, 22 it's an incredible company. In -- a lot of the guys were 23 entrepreneur thinkers, not so much salesmen. Many of our 24 guys are entrepreneurs in -- I mean, they suc -- probably 25 would succeed at anything they do, not just working for us.

1 If you don't have entrepreneur mentality, I mean, MFP's not 2 the place for you. 3 Q: Let's go back to your resume for a 4 moment. 5 A: Okay. 6 Q: All resumes contain references. 7 A: Right. 8 Q: Who did you use as references? 9 A: I used as a reference? Probably two (2) 10 people. 11 Q: And who would those two (2) people be? 12 A: When I say it's a guess, I just -- I'm 13 assuming it was a lady named Vicki McComber that I worked for 14 at Looks. 15 Q: You'll have to sp -- spell that for us. 16 Vicki is V - I - C -- 17 A: V - I - C -- 18 Q: -- K - I? 19 A: K - I. 20 Q: And the last name? 21 A: McComber. 22 Q: How do you spell that? 23 A: I think, M - C - C - O - M - B - E - R. 24 Q: You worked with her? 25 A: Yes.

1 Q: Where was that at? 2 A: At Looks. 3 Q: All right. Is she the owner? 4 A: Yes. 5 Q: You maintained a good relationship with 6 her? 7 A: A very good relationship. 8 Q: All right and any other reference? 9 A: I probably -- perhaps Fred Pristine. 10 Q: All right. 11 12 (BRIEF PAUSE) 13 14 Q: At that time, you would -- what was your 15 relationship with the Godfrey family? 16 A: Jay and Noah Godfrey would come to my 17 fitness club. 18 Q: Jay and Noah? 19 A: Paul's younger boys, yes. 20 Q: Let me just stop you there. Was either 21 Jay or Noah a godson to Jeff Lyons? 22 A: I don't know, I think one (1) of them, 23 I'm not sure of that. 24 Q: All right, but -- 25 A: I don't know who, but I believe somebody

1 is. 2 Q: All right. Anyhow, Jay and Noah used to 3 come to your club? 4 A: Yes, often. 5 Q: All right. Did you develop a 6 relationship with both of them? 7 A: Yeah, they just -- they would come, and 8 like I said, I tried to make it a destination for everybody 9 and made everyone feel comfortable, even if they weren't fit 10 or -- so -- 11 Q: Is it through Jay and Noah that you met 12 Rob? 13 A: Yes. 14 Q: Let's -- did Rob come to your club? 15 A: I think he'd been there a couple of 16 times. 17 Q: All right. When you -- when you met Jay 18 and -- and Noah, you knew they were Paul Godfrey's kids? 19 A: Yes. 20 Q: You knew who Paul Godfrey was? 21 A: Yes, I did. 22 Q: Knew he was a very influential fellow? 23 A: I would hear that. I mean, I -- I heard 24 that from many people. 25 Q: All right --

1 A: Particularly when people would see his 2 sons in there and make a big fuss out of it. 3 Q: All right. You developed a relationship 4 with both of them? 5 A: Yes. 6 Q: All right, and they introduced you to 7 Rob? 8 A: Yes. 9 Q: And when was that? 10 A: Sometime in '98, I'm guessing. When I 11 say I'm guessing, I'm sure it was in '98, I was at the gym, 12 early '98. 13 Q: It -- it would have been in -- in '98, 14 while you were at the gym that you met Rob? 15 A: Yes. 16 Q: And was he -- is Rob your age? 17 A: Rob is -- I believe he's -- he might be 18 twenty-eight (28) or twenty-nine (29) years old. 19 Q: So, he was -- 20 A: I think he's right -- 21 Q: -- six (6) years younger or something? 22 A: -- yeah, he's -- yeah, I think he's 23 twenty-eight (28) or twenty-nine (29) now. 24 Q: Twenty-eight (28) or twenty-nine (29) 25 now?

1 A: Yeah. 2 Q: All right. You clicked with Rob? 3 A: Yeah, I mean he's just a bright young 4 fellow, loves sports. He's a lawyer by trade, very bright. 5 Q: Why do you think you clicked with him? 6 A: Well, I think we just had a -- a common 7 interest in sports, he's a big fan of my brother's, because 8 they were in the sports world to some capacity, they had an 9 appreciation for it, I guess. And -- 10 Q: You clicked to the extent that you would 11 describe yourself -- your -- your relationship with him as 12 best friends? 13 A: No. 14 Q: How would you describe it? 15 A: We have a strong relationship. 16 Q: All right. Strong enough that you met 17 Paul Godfrey through Rob? 18 A: No. 19 Q: How did you meet Paul Godfrey? 20 A: The first time I met Paul Godfrey was my 21 brother had a party in -- at his house in -- I think it was 22 August '98. I don't know days, but I know years usually. 23 August '98, and my brother had a lot of people there, and 24 Paul Godfrey was one (1) of them. 25 Q: At that point you were -- you were

1 already friendly with -- 2 A: Jay and Noah. 3 Q: -- Jay and Noah? 4 A: Yes. 5 Q: And you -- and you'd met Rob? 6 A: Yes, I did. 7 Q: You clicked with Rob by that -- 8 A: Yeah, well -- 9 Q: -- by that time? 10 A: -- I mean Rob and I were just -- he had 11 his friends, he was you know, busy doing his thing, going to 12 school, but great kids. 13 Q: How many people were at this party? 14 A: I'd say seventy (70) or eighty (80). 15 Q: All right. 16 A: Eighty (80) people. 17 Q: You made it a point to meet Paul Godfrey? 18 A: Yeah, sure. 19 Q: All right. What was the point of meeting 20 him? 21 A: Just, I mean, to introduce myself. He's 22 a very approachable individual, as you know. And he's a very 23 approachable guy, a nice person. Talked about his boys and 24 that's about it. 25 Q: Mr. Godfrey -- Paul Godfrey was becoming

1 part of your network at that point wasn't he? 2 A: I wouldn't say part of my network, but he 3 was -- he was in a place that was -- my family was at. So he 4 was there with his wife, and I -- 5 Q: Did you -- 6 A: -- I can't say at that point he was part 7 of the network. 8 Q: Did you over time develop a relationship 9 with Paul Godfrey? 10 A: Yes. 11 Q: Would you describe that relationship as a 12 strong relationship? 13 A: Yes, I do. 14 Q: I believe Mr. Nigro, described it as a 15 mentor? 16 A: Mentor to him? 17 Q: No, I think it was the other way around. 18 He was describing it, he was a mentor to you, I think was his 19 impression. Would that be an accurate impression? 20 A: Yeah, I consider Paul like -- he's a guy 21 that every time you walk away from him, you kind of just -- I 22 always like to say that I don't want to extract everything, I 23 just want to pick one (1) thing up, that I can learn. And 24 he's a very obliging individual. 25 Q: There was a sense in you that you could

1 trust Paul Godfrey? 2 A: Well, I mean, I had no reason to believe 3 otherwise really. I mean I had no need for anything, or I 4 didn't really have much to talk about with Paul per se, then. 5 Q: You didn't have a need for anything from 6 Paul Godfrey then? 7 A: Well, when I say, a need for anything, 8 like I didn't really have a common conversation point or 9 something I could discuss with him. 10 Q: At that point? 11 A: No. 12 Q: Over a period of time did you develop 13 common conversation points? 14 A: I mean, we talked politics and -- 15 Q: Talking about politics, let me just stop 16 you there, you have a strong -- you're a strong supporter of 17 the PC party of Ontario? 18 A: I'm a supporter. 19 Q: I put it strong, is that the wrong -- 20 A: I mean you can say I'm strong, yes, I 21 think I'm strong. 22 Q: You co-chaired the Premier's golf 23 tournament? 24 A: Yes. 25 Q: That was in what, 2000?

1 A: Yes. 2 Q: Mr. Godfrey is a strong supporter of the 3 Tory party? 4 A: I believe so. 5 Q: In any event, when you went to work -- 6 when you went to interview with MFP, that relationship was 7 just -- and your relationship with Rob and Jay and Noah, that 8 was just sort of beginning? 9 A: Yes, just friends. 10 Q: Now, you went to interview with Ms. Payne? 11 A: Yes. 12 Q: You interviewed for how long? 13 A: It was -- it was a long interview. 14 Q: Did that make you uncomfortable? 15 A: It went on for quite a while, if I recall, 16 Irene -- she was just showing me she was the boss, I guess, 17 and a high energy lady. 18 Q: I'm sorry? 19 A: A very high energy woman. 20 Q: Now, when you say, she was showing you she 21 was the boss, help us understand the basis of that 22 observation? 23 A: Well, I mean just the way her office was 24 set up, I mean it was perfect and -- but she had talked about 25 what she had did for the Company.

1 Q: What did she say? 2 A: She built a large portfolio, actually, I 3 think she had called it the crown jewels at the time, which 4 was the provincial government. 5 Q: The crown jewel was the provincial 6 government? 7 A: I mean I think in her eyes, well, I think 8 -- I'm not sure if it was of the company or her crown jewels, 9 were the provincial government. 10 Q: Did she share with you how she went about 11 building a crown jewel? 12 A: She's -- she probably would out work 13 anybody. 14 Q: Now, we'll have to be careful here, what 15 I'm trying to focus you on is this interview. 16 A: Okay. 17 Q: Was it your impression or something she 18 said that she could probably out work anybody, or would 19 probably out work anybody? 20 A: She was -- I'm fond of her. 21 Q: Very? 22 A: I'm very fond of her -- of her energy at 23 the time, when she -- she talked about she wants high energy 24 people. She was head of Sales and Marketing of the company 25 and I don't know what the sales force was at the time and she

1 wanted to inject life into the company. That was her vision. 2 She wanted to take it to another level. 3 Q: What was that -- what was that level? 4 A: I don't know. Maybe she wanted to do -- 5 she wanted to be like the Newcourt's of the world and I 6 remember her saying international and all that stuff and I 7 don't know if that was the vision of the company or Irene's 8 personal vision. I'm likely to think that it was Irene's 9 personal vision that that's where she wanted to take it. 10 Q: She shared that with you at this -- at 11 this meeting? 12 A: Yeah. She was very forthright. 13 Q: You're sort of an easy person to be 14 forthright with, it appears. 15 A: I'm sorry? 16 Q: You're sort of an easy person to be 17 forthright with, according to your experience with Mr. Robson 18 and then with -- with -- 19 A: I just -- 20 Q: -- Ms. Payne. 21 A: -- I like to listen and -- 22 23 (BRIEF PAUSE) 24 25 Q: You liked that high energy part of Irene

1 Payne? 2 A: That's probably what -- that's probably 3 what got me -- got me charged. 4 Q: You're a high energy person? 5 A: I don't know if I am. I like to think I 6 am, but in other people's views, I don't know how they 7 perceive me to be. 8 Q: You des -- you described yourself as -- 9 as your -- your main asset or your main strength was that you 10 were driven. When you say driven, is that like high energy 11 or -- 12 A: I -- 13 Q: -- something more than that? 14 A: -- I'm driven. I -- I -- I -- I'm geared 15 towards results. I'm a result-oriented person. 16 Q: Did you have that sense that Irene Payne 17 was exactly like that as well? High energy, driven, geared 18 toward -- 19 A: Yes. 20 Q: -- results? 21 A: I did. 22 Q: Did you click? 23 A: Yes. 24 Q: Did she have your resume? 25 A: Does she?

1 Q: Did she have your resume when she was 2 talking to you? 3 A: You know -- 4 Q: You described her office as -- it was 5 neat and everything. 6 A: Yeah. Sh -- she must have. I mean, I -- 7 I can't remember her having it. I -- I just -- I can't 8 recall but she -- 9 Q: Did you have some sense during this 10 discussion that she knew your background? 11 A: I'm sorry. I don't remember. I don't -- 12 you know what, I don't even know if she looked at my resume. 13 Q: All right. 14 A: She probably would have went through it 15 with me, but I just -- I can't recall, really. 16 Q: So let's see, you send over a resume, you 17 have a discussion with Robson, you walk into Irene Payne's 18 office dressed casually? 19 A: Yes. 20 Q: Sit down and have a long conversation? 21 A: Yes. 22 Q: You don't know whether she'd even looked 23 at your resume? 24 A: I mean -- she -- she -- she may have. 25 I'm -- I'm sure she did but -- I mean, just things happened

1 so quickly. I got in there and boom, she was -- it was like 2 a light switch went on and she was just on. 3 Q: Now, tell me, and this may be difficult 4 for you to answer. Did you sell her or did she sell you? Wh 5 -- wh -- what was going on here? 6 A: I think she probably triggered off on 7 selling me but then I kind of said okay. 8 Q: You went with it? 9 A: I just went with it. 10 Q: All right. You've told us that ag -- 11 again, as -- as -- as you do, all about what Ms. Payne said 12 to you and so and so forth. What did you do to sell her? 13 What did you say? 14 A: We talked about -- she -- she told me 15 about the company a lot and what did I do? 16 I kind of -- sh -- she liked to hear that I 17 thought like an entrepreneur, I mean -- I mean, I made it 18 very clear that I didn't have any technical skills or 19 financial background and she -- I don't think she had herself 20 that technical skills or financial background so she could 21 perhaps relate to where I was coming from. 22 So she probably gave me some comfort level of 23 sharing with her my feelings and -- 24 Q: You've said just a minute ago, that you 25 used the word, she liked to hear. Could you expand on that.

1 Is that -- were you talking or responding to her in a way 2 that you felt she wanted to hear? 3 A: Not necessarily, I -- I was responding to 4 her the best way that I knew I could. 5 Q: But you must have had some sense from the 6 -- the discussion with her that she wanted to hear that you 7 were an entrepreneur, she wanted to hear that you were a high 8 energy person, she wanted to hear that you were driven? 9 A: Well -- 10 Q: Am I right in that? 11 A: -- I didn't know anything about her 12 background until I got there. I mean I didn't get briefed to 13 say, hey, this is what she's like or anything, I mean I just 14 went in there cold. But I could sense she was a lady who -- 15 who had high energy and wanted to see someone that had high - 16 - but she said that several times, she wanted to inject 17 energy into the company and new life and so... 18 Q: And you were there to -- to sell her on 19 the fact that you were the kind of person she was looking 20 for? 21 A: Yes, I did my best. 22 Q: Now you, I know, appreciate the fact that 23 you walk into -- into this company, a public company -- 24 A: Right. 25 Q: -- the Senior Vice-President of Sales and

1 Marketing, apparently successful, with no background in -- in 2 this business but some success at hairdressing and what you'd 3 learned from that. Did you discuss what you'd learned from 4 that? 5 A: Yeah, I mean I -- I gave her an analogy 6 of -- and I give it to people often. In hairdressing, that 7 is a very tough sell. 8 Firstly, you're dealing with -- if I can just 9 make this point, a stranger, always, everyday, strangers are 10 coming and sitting in your chair. And they're going to be 11 sitting with you for an hour perhaps, or forty-five (45) 12 minutes, or whatever that may be. 13 Firstly, you've got to sell them on yourself, 14 a consultation. I mean you've got to get to know them a 15 little bit, what they're like, their background. It's -- 16 you've got to sell them on making them feel better obviously, 17 with the look that you can achieve. 18 And thirdly, you've got to finish it, you've 19 got to deliver. 20 So, that's all -- several selling tools to do 21 that. 22 Q: The better you know a person, the -- the 23 more likely you'll be successful in selling? 24 A: Making them -- well, attempting to 25 understand somebody or selling, yes, sure.

1 (BRIEF PAUSE) 2 3 Q: I take it that you wanted to convey to 4 Ms. Payne, that you're a -- a person that could develop 5 relationships, build relationships? 6 A: I would work at it. 7 Q: Mr. -- Mr. Domi, you had been very 8 successful at it -- 9 A: Yes. 10 Q: -- both in hairdressing -- 11 A: Yes. 12 Q: -- and at the gym? 13 A: Yes. 14 Q: And you conveyed that to her? 15 A: Yes. 16 Q: And you knew when you walked in there 17 from -- from -- from Mr. Robson, that this was a company that 18 based its business on relationships? 19 A: Yes. 20 Q: You had some confidence that if you 21 didn't know anything technically about the company or what 22 the job was, that what you did know was how to build a 23 relationship? 24 A: Yes. 25 Q: You knew how to sell?

1 A: I don't know if I knew at the time, but I 2 -- I would learn, just -- well, I guess I -- I could say, 3 yes, I knew how to sell. But the -- and what Irene had also 4 told me is she would surround me with support, that's one (1) 5 point that she -- clearly she had made at the time. 6 Q: What was your understanding of what your 7 job was going to be? Now, I -- I appreciate the fact that 8 she was going to surround you with support. What was your 9 job? 10 A: I looked at my role as being someone who 11 was going to sell or attempt to sell and market our Company, 12 that's what she conveyed to me constantly. 13 She was in the sales and marketing. She 14 wanted to market our Company and take it to another level. 15 That's how she conveyed it to me. That's what her agenda 16 was. 17 Q: Your ability to develop relationships was 18 valuable to both Ms. Payne and to MFP? 19 A: I believe so. 20 Q: Now, you start with this Company in 21 November -- early November 1998? 22 A: Yes. 23 Q: And in the ensuing months and then years, 24 you work on the City of Toronto account? 25 A: Yes.

1 Q: Can you explain to us how is it that you 2 went about making $1.2 million on the City account? 3 A: How did I start on -- 4 Q: How did you do it? You're a results 5 oriented person. What was your game plan, how did you go 6 about it and how did you end up getting yourself $1.2 million 7 for doing it? 8 A: Well, the one (1) thing I've got to say 9 about that whole -- talking about the 1.2 million, is I'd 10 have to give more credit to Rob Wilkinson than he's ever been 11 given credit for. 12 Rob was a guy who we worked daily together. 13 He's a level-headed and he always made issues understandable 14 to anybody, including someone who doesn't have any technology 15 or leasing background, sometimes he'd get a little carried 16 away with the high level, but he was very helpful. We worked 17 together. 18 Q: According to Mr. Wolfraim's evidence Rob 19 Wilkinson was in the role of sales support? 20 A: Yes. 21 Q: And in respect to the City of Toronto 22 account, he made a commission of eighty thousand dollars 23 ($80,000)? 24 A: Yes. 25 Q: You made a commission of $1.2 million?

1 A: Yes. 2 Q: So while I appreciate the fact that you 3 give so much credit to Mr. Wilkinson, can you explain to us 4 how it is that you were credited to the point of making $1.2 5 million on the City of Toronto account? How did you achieve 6 that? 7 A: Rob and I worked very hard with the City. 8 Very closely. There was a huge, huge agenda in Y2K in 9 post-amalgamation for the City and we worked very closely 10 with them. 11 In regards to the commissions, I had mentioned 12 to Mike Flanagan, who was my Senior Vice President, that -- 13 because I recall -- I'll take it back. 14 Rob had worked very closely with Irene for 15 years. She had a lot of success in her life because of Rob. 16 And so she kind of steered me in the path of working with Rob 17 closely. 18 I asked if Rob and I could have -- I just 19 didn't think it was fair about our split in commissions, that 20 he got a 5 percent override and I discussed that with Mike 21 Flanagan. 22 And he -- what he told me, was he said, Dash, 23 he works with other sales reps so he gets compensated for his 24 work. 25 Q: 5 percent override?

1 A: I -- I'm not sure of the exact number. I 2 mean -- 3 Q: Would that be on $1.6 million? 4 A: I -- I'm not sure exactly, Mr. Manes, how 5 he got paid. 6 Q: Wh -- whatever your submissions were on 7 behalf of Rob Wilkinson, you made $1.2 million? 8 A: Right. 9 Q: Now, you've told us that in order to 10 achieve that, you and Rob worked very hard with the City? 11 A: Yes. 12 Q: You worked very closely with Rob? 13 A: Every day. 14 Q: Everybody in this room works very hard at 15 their jobs you can assume, but few would make $1.2 million on 16 one (1) deal. 17 A: Right. 18 Q: You d -- you had other deals -- 19 A: Right. 20 Q: -- as well, didn't you? 21 A: Right. 22 Q: All right. So in -- in addition to 23 working very closely with Rob and working very hard with the 24 City, explain to us what you did to achieve that -- that 25 result? $1.2 million commission?

1 A: Firstly, we -- we went in with a bid to 2 win the deal and I was -- followed instructions. I mean, I 3 -- I was kind of coached along by Irene and Rob on our 4 business and how things operate and how things work and I -- 5 I, essentially, followed their lead. 6 Q: Irene Payne didn't make a commission on 7 this, did she? 8 A: I don't believe so. 9 Q: All right. So we were trying to focus on 10 -- on you -- 11 A: Okay. 12 Q: -- and what you did. You -- you -- you 13 were working very hard on the -- on the City account with 14 Wilkinson. You're -- you put in a bid, a proposal? 15 A: Right. 16 Q: You were coached along in -- by Irene and 17 -- and Rob. What did you do in addition to that, to achieve 18 that kind of commission? 19 A: Well, each -- during -- from winning the 20 bid, each quarter the City would put on lease whatever they 21 were putting on lease at the time and we sometimes would make 22 margins, other times we wouldn't and I got paid on profits. 23 I didn't get paid on the actual size of the deal. 24 Q: You got paid on results? 25 A: Yes.

1 MADAM COMMISSIONER: Mr. Manes, just -- I 2 told Mr. Nigro (sic) we'd break at 11:30 as we have been. Is 3 this a good time to break? 4 MR. RONALD MANES: Yes. 5 MADAM COMMISSIONER: Okay. All right, we'll 6 break until ten (10) to. 7 THE REGISTRAR: The Inquiry will recess until 8 ten (10) to 12:00. 9 10 --- Upon recessing at 11:30 a.m. 11 12 --- Upon resuming at 11:51 a.m. 13 14 THE REGISTRAR: The Inquiry will resume, 15 please be seated. 16 17 (BRIEF PAUSE) 18 19 MADAM COMMISSIONER: Mr. Manes...? 20 21 CONTINUED BY MR. RONALD MANES: 22 Q: My error, there's one (1) thing I didn't 23 cover with you, that I -- that I said I would, and I should 24 have. And I'm going to go back to how you made a hundred 25 (100) -- $1.2 million --

1 A: Okay. 2 Q: -- I'll come back -- I'll come back to 3 that just briefly. 4 I -- I know that -- that -- and you've told us 5 about interviewing with Irene Payne. I didn't ask you about 6 your interview with Peter Wolfraim. 7 Do you recall whether you interviewed with him 8 or not? 9 A: Yes, I did. 10 Q: All right. Do you recall how long the 11 interview was? 12 A: I don't know, I think it was -- actually, 13 it was very brief, I -- I believe Peter probably looked to 14 Irene to ultimately make her sales decisions. So... 15 Q: Let's be careful here as to what you 16 believe -- 17 A: Okay. 18 Q: -- Irene did. Just as best as you can, 19 estimate to the Commissioner how long that interview was when 20 you say brief, was it a minute, three (3) minutes? 21 A: Twenty (20) minutes maybe. 22 Q: Twenty (20) minutes, okay. 23 A: Fifteen (15) or twenty (20) minutes. 24 Q: What's your impression of that interview, 25 Mr. Domi? How was it different, if at all, from the

1 interview that you had with Ms. Payne, other than the fact 2 that Ms. Payne's interview was much, much longer? 3 A: He was the CEO, he's the boss. He 4 probably has his views on -- on what he feels a salesman for 5 MFP should be. 6 Q: What did he say? 7 A: He didn't really say much, I mean when I 8 say I'm guessing, he may have talked to Dave Robson perhaps 9 on -- a little more on myself, and because Peter and Dave had 10 a relationship, I believe. 11 Q: Let -- let me ask you something. Are you 12 talking from what you recollect or is it perhaps something 13 that you read in transcripts? 14 A: Oh, no, I recollect. 15 Q: All right, that's what I -- then that's 16 what I need. Again, to the best of your recollection what 17 did he say -- what did Mr. Wolfraim say to you, and what -- 18 what did you respond to him? 19 A: We -- we talked a little bit about 20 sports, I recall. He -- he didn't say very much, Peter's not 21 a guy who would say very much. And it was a very brief 22 conversation, but I -- I can't recall what the context of it 23 was. 24 Q: I take it you didn't go into your work 25 experience, background --

1 A: Yes. 2 Q: -- et cetera, like you did with -- 3 A: Yes. 4 Q: -- Irene Payne? 5 A: I talked about my fitness club, and I 6 told him that I started it, how I started it and what I did 7 to bring it to where it was and he was the founder and 8 starter of MFP, so I think he can relate to what it's like to 9 start a business, so I just kind of viewed myself as an 10 entrepreneur and given the opportunity, I would attempt to do 11 that there. 12 Q: So the common ground you found with -- 13 with Mr. Wolfraim, at least, was the fact that you each had 14 started your own business? 15 A: I -- I believe so, but I -- I'm not -- 16 Q: All right. 17 A: -- sure. 18 Q: And he said that he was the founder of 19 MFP? 20 A: Yes. 21 Q: And you told him that -- about the gym 22 and how you had developed it? 23 A: Yes. 24 Q: He told you how he had developed MFP? 25 A: I remember him saying that he worked in

1 New York for a while, and he told me a little bit about 2 himself. 3 Q: That seems to be the way people respond 4 to you, isn't it? That they talk about themselves to some 5 extent, even if they don't know you very well. And even if 6 it's just -- 7 A: Again -- 8 Q: -- time? 9 A: -- he didn't say very much, but I just 10 remember him saying that he had worked in New York, and the 11 reason that came up is because my brother played for the 12 Rangers in New York, so. 13 Q: Do you recall whether he had -- and you 14 would appreciate this at the time, a particular philosophy or 15 mission, in respect to MFP, what did it stand for? 16 A: I recall him basing MFP as a relationship 17 company. 18 Q: All right. 19 A: Saying that. 20 Q: Did he expand on that? 21 A: Not really, no, it was -- it was very -- 22 like I said, it was a very brief conversation. 23 Q: Did you know at that time -- I appreciate 24 you haven't done any research, but did you know at that time 25 that MFP's focus on developing long term relationships was

1 right in their Mission Statement? 2 A: No, I did not. 3 Q: You subsequently found -- found that out, 4 or did you ever see the Mission Statement? 5 A: I've probably -- I don't know that I've 6 looked at the Mission Statement. 7 Q: But it doesn't surprise you? 8 A: No. 9 Q: Do you recall whether Mr. Wolfraim asked 10 you anything about you? 11 A: He just asked a bit about my background. 12 I can't recall much else. 13 Q: When you walked -- first of all, I 14 haven't asked you this question, I should. Did that 15 interview take place the same day as the interview with Ms. 16 Payne? 17 A: I cannot recall. 18 Q: It took place after the interview in any 19 event in time, than the interview with Ms. Payne? 20 A: I think I met with Irene first. 21 Q: Yes. And then -- 22 A: Peter following. 23 Q: -- Peter following. 24 A: Yes. 25 Q: You just don't recall whether it's that

1 day or -- 2 A: I'm sorry, I can't recall. 3 Q: Just that it was subsequent? 4 A: That's right. 5 Q: When you walked out of the interview with 6 Ms. Payne, had she offered you a job? 7 A: I just sensed I had the job. 8 Q: All right. Because it went so well? 9 A: Yeah, I just sensed I had the job. 10 Q: But, I take it you weren't officially 11 offered the job until after you spoke with Mr. Wolfraim? 12 A: I believe so. 13 Q: All right. In the interview that you had 14 with Ms. Payne, did you talk money? 15 A: She talked a lot, she'd say 100K, 200K, 16 like she -- she's always say K, she would never say, like it 17 -- at MFP, we -- we don't discuss -- we're paid very well, 18 people just aren't like that, you know, like how many K did 19 you make. I mean it just -- 20 Irene would often say, well, this guy, people 21 make 300K or 400K, like she kept using the word K, so -- 22 Q: In the meeting that you had with her -- in 23 the interview that you had with her, did you talk about money 24 in the sense of how much you were going to make, on what 25 basis you were going to make it?

1 A: I don't believe I asked her and I don't 2 believe she told me, at the time. 3 Q: Did you have any sense whether this was 4 going to be a salaried job or a commission job, or a 5 combination of both? 6 A: I think she wanted to follow up again, 7 but, she -- I just can't remember, actually. 8 Q: All right. In your discussions with Peter 9 Wolfraim, did you have the sense that you had the job, and 10 this was only a formality? 11 A: Actually, from Peter I didn't, I felt that 12 -- I'm sure it came from Irene, because I spent very little 13 time with Peter, but it was probably just a formality, 14 there's like many employees there so -- 15 Q: All right. That was your sense at the 16 time? 17 A: Yes, I sensed that, yes. 18 Q: Now, if you -- if you just go back to your 19 contract -- 20 A: Okay -- 21 Q: -- the contract that you have because that 22 might help and assist you in refreshing your recollection 23 here. 24 MADAM COMMISSIONER: And where is that again, 25 Mr. Manes?

1 MR. RONALD MANES: That's -- 2 MADAM COMMISSIONER: It's in Irene Payne's? 3 MR. RONALD MANES: Irene Payne, Volume 2, Tab 4 44. 5 MADAM COMMISSIONER: Thanks. Okay. 6 7 CONTINUED BY MR. RONALD MANES: 8 Q: Do you have that in front of you, Mr. 9 Domi? 10 A: Yes. 11 Q: You're faster than I am. I just want to 12 take you to dates here? 13 A: Okay. 14 Q: All right. This is sent out -- well this 15 is dated October 23rd, 1998, this letter agreement? 16 A: Okay. 17 Q: And then three (3) days -- well, three (3) 18 days after that date, I don't know when you got it, but three 19 (3) days after that date, you signed it and agree to it. See 20 that at page 5? 21 A: Yes. 22 Q: Now, I guess that my question is and what 23 we have to fill in the record for, is this. The first 24 paragraph starts out: 25 "Further to our recent meetings and

1 discussions." 2 We've heard that you had two (2) meetings, 3 Irene Payne and -- and Peter Wolfraim. You had the pre- 4 meeting meeting -- 5 A: Right. 6 Q: -- with Dave Robson. Any other meetings 7 or discussions -- 8 A: No. 9 Q: -- after? That's -- that's it? 10 A: That was it. 11 Q: Well, wh -- you -- you've -- you've said 12 that -- that's the best of your recollection, I appreciate 13 that but you don't remember discussing money -- it's -- your 14 salary or commission at the time you spoke with -- 15 A: No. 16 Q: -- either of them? 17 A: No. 18 Q: So what happened? Did you just get this 19 thing in the mail, or what? 20 A: I was told by -- I -- I can't remember if 21 it was sent to me or I picked it up. Actually, I think I may 22 have went -- and called back to MFP. Irene handed me a 23 contract, I believe and said take it away, look at it and 24 come back and sign it and she said just take a second to read 25 through it.

1 Q: Did she tell you anything about what was 2 in it or just -- 3 A: Just sign it. 4 Q: -- call you back in, here it is. Go 5 think about it. 6 A: You want someone to look at it, or if you 7 wish to make changes, she had said, perhaps. 8 Q: All right and so I take it when she 9 called you, she said we're going to offer you the job or 10 something to give you a sense that you were -- you were going 11 in there to pick up -- 12 A: Yes. 13 Q: All right. Well, were you happy about 14 that? 15 A: Well, I think I told you. I kind of 16 grazed through it and -- 17 Q: No, what I meant was were you happy -- 18 A: Yes. 19 Q: -- about getting the job offer? 20 A: Yes, I was. 21 Q: All right. Now, the next question I'm 22 going to ask you is -- I take it your -- you say grazed over 23 this? 24 A: Yes. 25 Q: All right and was there anything in there

1 that -- that made you unhappy? 2 A: No. 3 Q: Anything in particular that made you 4 happy? 5 A: The number. 6 Q: Now, let's g -- let's go to that -- that 7 number. Where is that number? 8 A: The monthly rate, I recall. 9 Q: Eight thousand three hundred and thirty- 10 four dollars ($8,334) payable semi-monthly in arrears? 11 A: Yes. 12 Q: Right? Subject to deductions, et cetera. 13 So that's one hundred thousand dollars ($100,000) a year? 14 A: Yes. 15 Q: You were happy with that number? 16 A: Sure. 17 Q: Now, with that -- as far as your reading 18 of this was that a -- a draw or a salary or what? 19 A: I -- I kind of -- I didn't really look at 20 it in too much detail, but I perceived it to be like a 21 salary. 22 Q: All right. Now, I appreciate that the 23 gym business was pretty successful -- 24 A: Yes. 25 Q: -- in terms of developing clientele but

1 were you making one hundred thousand (100,000) before tax at 2 the -- at the gym business? 3 A: No. 4 Q: Anywhere near there? 5 A: No. 6 Q: So no wonder you're happy about this 7 hundred thousand dollar ($100,000) figure. 8 A: Yes. 9 Q: And you say that was never negotiated or 10 discussed it was just put in the contract? 11 A: Yes. 12 Q: What did that tell you about this job and 13 MFP? 14 A: Well, the -- they're putting a lot of 15 faith and believing in me, that's for sure. 16 Q: All right. Did it tell you anything 17 about how much people make there? 18 A: No. 19 Q: What they pay you? You considered 20 yourself a rookie when you -- at this job? 21 A: Yeah, I -- I'd consider myself green. 22 Q: So they're paying the -- they paid a 23 rookie or somebody that's green one hundred thousand dollars 24 ($100,000) for a position that technically you're not 25 qualified for, I guess you'd say. Did that tell yo