1 2 3 TORONTO COMPUTER LEASING INQUIRY 4 5 6 7 ******************** 8 9 10 BEFORE: THE HONOURABLE MADAM JUSTICE DENISE BELLAMY, 11 COMMISSIONER 12 13 14 15 16 Held at: East York Civic Centre 17 850 Coxwell Avenue 18 Toronto, Ontario 19 M4C 5R1 20 21 ******************** 22 23 24 February 11th, 2003 25

2
  1                        APPEARANCES
  2  Ronald Manes            )Commission Counsel 
  3  Patrick Moore  (np)     )
  4  Daina Groskaufmanis     ) 
  5  Linda Rothstein         )City of Toronto 
  6  Lily Harmer    (np)     )
  7  Robert Centa            )
  8  Gordon Capern  (np)     )
  9  David Moore             )MFP 
 10  Fraser Berrill (np)     ) 
 11  Ken Jones      (np)     ) 
 12  Brian Heller   (np)     )Ball Hsu and Associates Ltd.
 13  Melissa Kronick (np)    )CUPE 
 14  Raj Anand (np)          )Lana Viinamae
 15  Bay Ryley               )
 16  William Anderson        )Wanda Liczyk
 17  Valerie Dyer   (np)     )Dell Computers
 18  Jennifer Lynch (np)     )
 19  Edward Greenspan (np)   )Jeff Lyons
 20  Todd White (np)         )
 21  Hugh MacKenzie          )Jim Andrew
 22  Paul Cavalluzzo         )Dash Domi
 23  Benjamin Barnes (np)    )
 24  
 25  Joyce Ihamaki           )Registrar

1 TABLE OF CONTENTS 2 Page 3 List of Exhibits 4 4 DASH DOMI, Resumed 5 Continued Cross-Examination 6 by Ms. Linda Rothstein 6 7 Cross-Examination by Mr. William Anderson 172 8 9 Certificate of Transcript 242 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25

1 EXHIBITS 2 No. Description Page 3 15 VOLUME 1 Bound document titled 5 4 "Dash Domi Cellular Phone" 5 tabs 1-25 6 15 VOLUME 2 Bound document titled 5 7 "Dash Domi Cellular Phone" 8 tabs 26- 58 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25

1 --- Upon commencing at 10:10 a.m. 2 3 THE REGISTRAR: The inquiry is now in 4 session. Please be seated. 5 6 DASHNOR DOMI, Resumed: 7 8 MADAM COMMISSIONER: Good morning. I 9 apologize for the late start. I was having my own set of 10 computer glitches back in the offices, but, I think we're all 11 ready to go now. 12 Thank you. 13 MS. LINDA ROTHSTEIN: Commissioner, you should 14 now have two (2) Volumes that I understand from the Registrar 15 will be marked as Exhibit 15. 16 17 --- EXHIBIT 15 VOLUME 1: Bound document titled "Dash Domi 18 Cellular Phone" tabs 1-25 19 20 --- EXHIBIT 15 VOLUME 2: Bound document titled " Dash Domi 21 Cellular Phone" tabs 26 - 58 22 23 MADAM COMMISSIONER: Okay. 24 MS. LINDA ROTHSTEIN: Tabs 1 to 49, you can 25 take a look at these, as well, Mr. Domi, comprise the actual

1 cell phone records of Mr. Domi. 2 THE WITNESS: What -- oh -- I'm sorry -- what 3 -- Volume 1? 4 MADAM COMMISSIONER: It says cellular phone 1. 5 THE REGISTRAR: Ms. Rothstein, that will be 6 Exhibit 15, Volume 1 and 15 Volume 2. 7 MS. LINDA ROTHSTEIN: Okay. 15, Volume 2, 8 thank you, Registrar, will be Tabs 50 to 59. Those are the 9 summary charts that I explained yesterday and were prepared 10 by Counsel for the City of Toronto. 58 and 59 should be part 11 of that Volume 2, they were just handed out this morning and 12 I want to make sure everyone has that, as well. 13 14 (BRIEF PAUSE) 15 16 MADAM COMMISSIONER: Did you say 59? 17 MS. LINDA ROTHSTEIN: Sorry, 57 and 58. 18 MADAM COMMISSIONER: Okay. Yes. 19 20 (BRIEF PAUSE) 21 22 CONTINUED CROSS-EXAMINATION BY MS. LINDA ROTHSTEIN: 23 Q: Have you got all that, Mr. Domi? 24 A: I think I do, yes. 25 Q: Okay.

1 MS. LINDA ROTHSTEIN: And Commissioner have 2 you got all that material? 3 MADAM COMMISSIONER: Yes, it looks like I do. 4 MS. LINDA ROTHSTEIN: Okay, well you can put 5 it aside for the moment because we're not -- we're not quite 6 there yet. But, I just wanted to make the housekeeping as 7 simple as we could. 8 MR. PAUL CAVALLUZZO: I'm sorry, Ms. 9 Rothstein, where does 57 go, 57 and 58? 10 MS. LINDA ROTHSTEIN: 57 and 58 are part of 11 Volume 2 of Exhibit 15. 12 MR. PAUL CAVALLUZZO: Volume 2, Exhibit 15. 13 MS. LINDA ROTHSTEIN: Anyone else have any 14 questions before I start? 15 MADAM COMMISSIONER: No, I'm happy for you to 16 start. 17 18 CONTINUED BY MS. LINDA ROTHSTEIN: 19 Q: Mr. Domi, just a bit of chronology that 20 brings us to the present. 21 You recall that in the summer of 2001, some 22 people at the City began to question the propriety of the 23 contracts which MFP had with the City? Do you remember 24 generally that discussion? 25 A: Yes.

1 Q: And that led to what we understand to be a 2 period of negotiations between MFP and the City to understand 3 what had happened? 4 A: Yes, correct. 5 Q: Did you have some role in that, Mr. Domi? 6 A: I attended -- I believe I attended most if 7 not all of the meetings that we had with City staff and KPMG. 8 Q: And there was an attempt to reach a 9 business solution to that dispute? 10 A: Yes. 11 Q: We understand from the Mayor and from Mr. 12 Wolfraim that Mr. Godfrey became or had some role in at least 13 the negotiated effort, do you remember that? 14 A: He did not attend any meetings, as far as 15 I know. 16 Q: But, did he have a role? 17 A: He may have had a role, from the Mayor's 18 part, I don't know really, what that role is. 19 Q: You're not familiar with Mr. Godfrey's 20 participation in attempting to resolve matters with the City? 21 A: Yes -- 22 MR. DAVID MOORE: Well, just a minute. I 23 think the evidence was that Mr. Godfrey, was asked to see if 24 the Mayor's office would attend a meeting or someone from the 25 Mayor's office.

1 MS. LINDA ROTHSTEIN: Right -- 2 THE WITNESS: Yes -- 3 MR. DAVID MOORE: I don't recall there being 4 any evidence that Mr. Godfrey actually participated in 5 negotiation or settlement discussions. That's my 6 recollection. 7 MS. LINDA ROTHSTEIN: I didn't intend that by 8 my question. I thought I put it more loosely than that. I 9 agree with Mr. Moore, that's the evidence. 10 11 CONTINUED BY MS. LINDA ROTHSTEIN: 12 Q: I had merely intended to suggest that 13 there was some attempt to resolve things amicably and that 14 Mr. Godfrey had some role in that, right? 15 A: Yeah, I think to set up the meeting for 16 the Mayor's office or somebody, but that's about it. 17 Q: What's your understanding of, first of 18 all, how Mr. Godfrey came to be involved in providing some 19 assistance in this respect? 20 A: Well, basically I'm sure -- I think it was 21 from the Mayor's call first. I mean I've introduced Paul to 22 my CEO, I believe at one (1) time or another, but he -- I 23 think it was the Mayor's call to find -- because it was 24 obviously heating up in Council. 25 So, he must have knew that he had a

1 relationship with me or -- 2 Q: Do you know how he would have known that, 3 Mr. Domi? 4 A: No, I mean, I don't know how he would have 5 known that maybe -- I don't know. Anyway I mean he tried to 6 set up a meeting with, I think actually -- I don't know if it 7 was actually the Mayor's office, I'm not exactly sure. 8 But, the Mayor's office -- none of the Mayor's 9 staff, actual staff -- actually ever came to a meeting at 10 that time. 11 Q: Hmm hmm. 12 A: Just no one ever attended which was 13 unfortunate, but it was staff and KPMG. 14 Q: Hmm hmm -- but, before all of that. Did 15 you talk to, Mr. Godfrey, about the concerns the City had 16 raised? Did you yourself do that, Mr. Domi? 17 A: I may have, but I mean like -- I mean -- 18 it was what it was. We had contracts in place and the City 19 could take any position they wish really. 20 Q: Well, what it was, as I understand it from 21 Mr. Wolfraim was a very significant concern for your company? 22 A: Yes, it was. I mean that's -- 23 Q: And you surely, at that stage, wanted to 24 lend whatever support you could to an effort to resolve the 25 matter, did you not?

1 A: I'm just a sales guy, I can't resolve the 2 matters. I mean I can't make decisions, I'm just there. 3 Q: I -- I didn't go that far, Mr. Dor -- 4 Domi. I simply suggested that you would want to lend some 5 support -- 6 A: Sure. 7 Q: -- to that effort? 8 A: Sure. 9 Q: Okay and Mr. Godfrey you've described as 10 a very close relationship in your life? 11 A: He's a friend, yes. 12 Q: And he's someone who you know has a good 13 relationship with the Mayor's office? 14 A: That's correct. 15 Q: And so surely, Mr. Domi, you would have 16 been part of the reason that Mr. Godfrey got involved in 17 this? 18 A: I don't know if I'm part of the reason. 19 I mean, if the Mayor asks him to get involved, I mean, who am 20 I to really be part of anything. I mean, the Mayor calls on 21 someone to assist in -- whether you call them negotiations or 22 to resolve it. I mean, who am I? I'm just a salesman at a 23 -- at a company, really. 24 Q: Is there something uncomfortable -- 25 A: No.

1 Q: -- about acknowledging -- 2 A: No. 3 Q: -- you might have put together two (2) 4 parties who were having a problem? 5 A: Well, I didn't put together the two (2) 6 parties, no. 7 Q: Had some role in that? 8 A: No, I wouldn't say I put together the 9 parties or had some role. I mean, the Mayor calls on 10 somebody. I mean, whether it's Godfrey or anybody else, I 11 mean you'll listen. 12 Q: And you're -- 13 A: The Mayor -- 14 Q: -- just a salesman? 15 A: As far as I think. I mean, I can't -- 16 what can I -- how can I negotiate with the City? 17 Q: You'd have a very limited role in any 18 high level decisions? 19 A: I can't make decisions on behalf of my 20 company. 21 Q: All right and you certainly can't -- 22 you're certainly not going to be very influential as a 23 salesman at the City? 24 A: In what -- 25 Q: Is that your view?

1 A: In what sense? 2 Q: In any sense. 3 A: Well, I don't know about that. I do my 4 best. 5 Q: Ultimately those efforts were 6 unsuccessful as I understand it? 7 A: Yes, they were unsuccessful. 8 Q: Regrettably, MFP and the City sued each 9 other in January 2002? 10 A: Yes. 11 Q: That litigation is still ongoing? 12 A: Yes. 13 Q: I take it you've assisted MFP in 14 preparing -- 15 A: I -- 16 Q: -- for that litigation? 17 A: -- do what's asked of me, absolutely. 18 Q: In February 2002, City Council passed a 19 resolution establishing this Inquiry? 20 A: Correct. 21 Q: You assisted MFP to prepare for this 22 Inquiry? 23 A: I did my best. 24 Q: As you told us yesterday, at some point 25 after February 2002 -- March -- you haven't been clear on the

1 time frame, your major role at MFP, if not your only role, 2 has been to provide assistance to the company in preparing 3 for this Inquiry. Is that what you told me yesterday? 4 A: Yeah. 5 Q: And when was that? From February on? 6 From March on? 7 A: I -- I'm not really specific on the time. 8 March of 2000 -- 9 Q: 2002. 10 A: -- 2002. 11 Q: Less than a year ago, sir. 12 A: No, I think it was w -- after that. I 13 mean, I was still attempting to -- I mean, we have had change 14 in personnel so there's -- there's opportunities. 15 Q: I just want to know when you stopped 16 selling? 17 A: I never stopped selling. 18 Q: I just want to know when the major focus 19 of your work at MFP became restricted to preparing for this 20 Inquiry? 21 A: I'd have to say probably, perhaps in the 22 summer, I felt. I -- I can't remember exact time lines, 23 really. Well, I -- I feel it was probably in the summer of 24 -- 25 Q: By June of 2002?

1 A: Yeah. June or July, I'd say. 2 Q: July at the latest? 3 A: It's rough but that's what I'd say, yeah. 4 Q: You were, in fact, interviewed by 5 Commission Counsel several times in the summer of 2002? 6 A: I'm not exactly sure when Mr. Manes 7 interviewed me. I thought it was in September but -- 8 Q: You remember being interviewed in 9 September thir -- 2002? 10 A: I don't know if it was in the summer. 11 Early in th -- early or mid-summer but I thought it was the 12 latter part of the summer, I think but I don't know exactly 13 when. 14 Q: So is your memory problematic even with 15 respect to the events of last summer? 16 A: Problematic? 17 MR. DAVID MOORE: You know, I -- I don't 18 think that's fair. I mean, really. You know, we can 19 document the dates when these meetings with Commission 20 Counsel took place. I can't remember exactly when they were, 21 there's been enough of them. 22 MS. LINDA ROTHSTEIN: I haven't even asked a 23 date, Commissioner. 24 MR. PAUL CAVALLUZZO: Well, let me interject 25 and object because My Friend put to the witness that there

1 were several meetings with Commission Counsel and although I 2 was not involved at that point in time, I don't believe that 3 it was several -- 4 MS. LINDA ROTHSTEIN: Th -- 5 MR. PAUL CAVALLUZZO: -- meetings. I mean -- 6 MS. LINDA ROTHSTEIN: -- that's certainly my 7 understanding. 8 MR. PAUL CAVALLUZZO: Well, then that's fine. 9 Then Commission Counsel can certainly clarify that for us -- 10 MADAM COMMISSIONER: Mr. Manes? 11 MR. PAUL CAVALLUZZO: -- because that's not 12 my understanding. 13 MR. RONALD MANES: I'll get the date of the 14 meetings. My -- my recollection is the meetings progressed 15 from a general meeting in the latter part of August with Mr. 16 Domi and other representatives of the company to two (2) 17 other meetings -- additional meetings with Mr. Domi alone, 18 but we can confirm that dates of those meetings. 19 MADAM COMMISSIONER: I do recall when Ms. 20 Groskaufmanis is here, and how we miss her when she's not 21 here, that she did -- I think she said September 4th was one 22 (1) of the meetings, I recall her saying that. 23 MR. DAVID MOORE: She did. And I think there 24 was one (1) meeting after that and there may have been an 25 initial meeting in late August as, Mr. Manes, indicates.

1 But, I mean we can get the specifics dates if 2 anything turns on that. 3 MADAM COMMISSIONER: Well, it would be helpful 4 to me, Mr. Manes, because it has come up a number of times 5 about Mr. Domi having been interviewed. 6 So, it would be helpful to me to know how many 7 -- just how many dates you interviewed him. 8 MR. RONALD MANES: We'll have that after the 9 break, Commissioner, or when Ms. Groskaufmanis comes back, 10 whichever is sooner. 11 MADAM COMMISSIONER: I didn't get the sense 12 that she would be here before the break. 13 MR. RONALD MANES: Oh, all right. 14 15 CONTINUED BY MS. LINDA ROTHSTEIN: 16 Q: Mr. Domi -- 17 A: Yes. 18 Q: -- you certainly were by the sounds of it, 19 interviewed in September of 2002. Does September 4th, 2002 20 ring a bell? 21 A: If that's the date -- 22 Q: Shortly after Labour Day? 23 A: Yes, if that's the date. 24 Q: But does that ring a bell? 25 A: Actually, I remember the first meeting we

1 had. I wasn't really -- I didn't really know that I was 2 meeting that day, so that's the one (1) thing I remember that 3 particular day. I can't recall that I knew about it. 4 MR. DAVID MOORE: I think, Mr. Domi, is 5 probably referring to something we didn't even call a 6 meeting, but just an initial introduction of who was involved 7 -- 8 THE WITNESS: Yes, exactly -- 9 MR. DAVID MOORE: -- in, if my memory serves, 10 mid-July, which was a very brief meeting, but of different 11 character than the later meetings. 12 THE WITNESS: Yes. 13 MR. DAVID MOORE: And that what then happened 14 was through Commission Counsel and the Commission staff, a 15 schedule was set up for meeting with key witnesses, which to 16 my recollection, began in late August and in the case of Mr. 17 Domi, spilled over to a couple of meetings September 4 is one 18 (1), I think there's one (1) shortly after that. 19 MADAM COMMISSIONER: July would have been the 20 standing hearings, wasn't it? 21 MR. DAVID MOORE: It was after the standing 22 hearings. 23 MADAM COMMISSIONER: Okay. 24 MR. DAVID MOORE: Mr. Manes, contacted me and 25 asked if it was possible to come out with Commission Counsel

1 and just have a very -- it wasn't even deemed to be a 2 meeting, just here's who we are, we'll meet some of the 3 people, and I suspect -- I'm quite sure that that's the 4 meeting that Mr. Domi is referring to, because he probably 5 wasn't aware that there was going to be a discussion at that 6 time. 7 MADAM COMMISSIONER: Thank you, Mr. Moore. 8 THE WITNESS: An off the record meeting. 9 MS. LINDA ROTHSTEIN: Commissioner, it may be 10 that I have misunderstood the nature of the discussions that 11 Mr. Domi had with Commission Counsel in the summer and I'm 12 grateful to everyone for that clarification. 13 14 CONTINUED BY MS. LINDA ROTHSTEIN: 15 Q: Sorry, Mr. Domi -- 16 A: That's fine -- 17 Q: -- if I was suggesting there were actual 18 interviews, when there weren't. 19 A: -- that's fine. No problem. 20 MR. RONALD MANES: There were -- I should 21 clarify as well, just in terms of meetings and definitions of 22 meetings, throughout the latter part of the summer and 23 throughout September and beyond, Mr. Moore and Commission 24 Counsel, in particular myself, had several discussions and 25 questions that were communicated to Mr. Domi, and then the

1 answers communicated -- communicated back. 2 So, in terms of actual face to face meetings, 3 we can provide those dates, but there were also some 4 numerable discussions and information coming back and forth. 5 MR. DAVID MOORE: Well, I mean -- there were a 6 lot of informal discussions, but to my recollection, it 7 wasn't so much in the nature of ask Mr. Domi this and respond 8 to that. 9 It was -- I don't recall it being quite of 10 that character, but we'll pin down the date of the 11 interviews. 12 MADAM COMMISSIONER: Okay. Thank you. 13 MS. LINDA ROTHSTEIN: That got us a bit off 14 track, sorry about that. 15 THE WITNESS: That's fine. 16 MS. LINDA ROTHSTEIN: I thought it was a 17 pretty simple question on the list. 18 THE WITNESS: That's fine. 19 20 CONTINUED BY MS. LINDA ROTHSTEIN: 21 Q: The Commission you, remember, Mr. Domi, 22 was scheduled to start hearings on September the 30th? 23 A: Yes. 24 Q: You knew you were going to be a witness? 25 A: Correct.

1 Q: And you, I take it, prepared to some 2 extent for giving evidence without knowing when you were 3 going to be called by, at that stage, having reviewed your 4 expense reports to some extent, is that fair? 5 A: Sure, yes. 6 Q: And some other documents that you had 7 access to at MFP to assist in refreshing your memory? 8 A: Yes. 9 Q: Is it fair to say that by the end of 10 September, having met with Commission Counsel in early 11 September, you knew you were going to be ask a whole lot of 12 questions? 13 A: Yeah, it was -- thousands of documents. 14 Q: And would it be fair to say, Mr. Domi, 15 that you realized that there was some gaps in your memory? 16 A: Yes, obviously. 17 Q: And you should do what you could to try 18 and refresh your memory with documents, discussions with 19 others, with MFP, that sort of thing? 20 A: Yes. That's correct. 21 Q: You knew as well, may I suggest to you 22 sir, that one (1) of the issues in this Inquiry was the 23 closeness of your relationship with what you've described as 24 the key decision makers in the -- 25 A: Yes.

1 Q: -- deal? 2 A: Yes. 3 Q: Yes? 4 A: Yes. 5 Q: With Tom Jakobek, yes? 6 A: Correct. 7 Q: You're nodding and we need -- 8 A: Oh, I'm sorry. 9 Q: -- a record. 10 A: Okay. So sorry. That's correct. 11 Q: With Wanda Liczyk? 12 A: Okay. Yes. 13 Q: And with Jim Andrew? 14 A: Yes. 15 Q: And then on September 30th, I can tell 16 you to everyone's surprise that Commissioner announced that 17 she was adjourning this Inquiry. Do you remember that? 18 A: Yeah, I do actually. 19 Q: I think we all do. 20 A: I recall. 21 MADAM COMMISSIONER: Sorry. 22 THE WITNESS: No, that's fine. I do recall 23 that. 24 25 CONTINUED BY MS. LINDA ROTHSTEIN:

1 Q: Were you here that day? 2 A: No. God no. 3 Q: Well, it was quite something. 4 A: No, I wasn't here. 5 Q: So the OPP could investigate allegations 6 of criminal misconduct. 7 A: Correct. 8 Q: And I'm sure you were told, because you 9 weren't here, that neither the Commissioner nor Mr. Manes 10 were prepared to tell the public anything about what those 11 allegations were about, right? 12 A: Right. 13 Q: But that didn't stop the press, did it, 14 from writing stories in which it was suggested that the OPP 15 was investigating an allegation of an attempt to obtain a 16 bribe from one of MFP's competitors on this deal. 17 A: It never stops the press, does it? 18 Q: But you read about that? 19 A: Yes, I did read about that. 20 Q: It was a very serious allegation. 21 A: Very disturbing, yes. 22 Q: And so the OPP decided to interview a 23 number of people, we now know, and you no doubt learned 24 reasonably early after September 30th that they were going to 25 interview some MFP employees to find out what, if anything,

1 they knew. 2 A: That's correct. 3 Q: And you knew, and indeed you were -- you 4 knew in advance and indeed you were interviewed by the OPP, 5 were you not? 6 A: I was. 7 Q: Now, we have the transcript of your 8 interview. We also have the audiotape if we need it but I 9 understand that the OPP -- or the videotape, I should say, 10 Commissioner. 11 You were interviewed at the Toronto OPP 12 detachment? 13 A: That's right. 14 Q: And actually if you take a look, Mr. 15 Domi, at your tab -- Volume 1 of your documents -- 16 A: Okay. 17 Q: -- at Tab 17. There's a great big tab 18 starting with Begdoc 41622. 19 A: Okay. 20 Q: Do you see that? 21 A: Yes. 22 Q: And this actually I think is most of, but 23 not all of, the confidential drafts investigative reports 24 prepared by the OPP following its investigation which related 25 to this Inquiry.

1 A: Yes. 2 Q: Do you see that? 3 A: Yes. 4 Q: Now, regrettably the pages aren't 5 numbered, so go all the way to the back of the tab. 6 A: Okay. 7 Q: Okay? 8 A: Yes. 9 Q: And you'll see that the last page in the 10 bottom right corner, Begdoc 41845 is Page 17 at the bottom? 11 A: Okay. 12 Q: Do you see that? 13 A: Yes, I do. 14 Q: That l -- that is the last page of your 15 interview as it turns out. 16 A: Okay. 17 Q: So just flip forward to Page 8, Begdoc 41 18 -- no. Flip all the way forward, sorry Mr. Domi, to Page 1. 19 Do you see that? 20 A: Yes. 21 Q: Name Dash Domi. 22 A: Yes. 23 Q: Your date of birth, your residence and so 24 on, your employer and then it says interviewed by Detective 25 Sergeant A. Karski.

1 A: Yes. 2 Q: Right? 3 A: Yes, I see that. 4 Q: And Detective Sergeant J. Zwambag? 5 MADAM COMMISSIONER: Can you just spell those 6 for the record? 7 MS. LINDA ROTHSTEIN: Karski is spelled K - A 8 - R - S - K - I and Zwambag is Z - W - A - M - B - A - G. 9 10 CONTINUED BY MS. LINDA ROTHSTEIN: 11 Q: Do you remember those two (2) detective 12 sergeants? 13 A: Yes, I do. It was the first time I'd 14 ever been questioned like that, so I remember. 15 Q: The first time you've ever been 16 interviewed by the OPP? 17 A: Yes. 18 Q: Okay, fair enough. 19 A: I'd rather be here. 20 Q: Yeah. Date of the interview October 21 10th, 2002. Place of interview Toronto OPP detachment. 22 Commenced at 15:33 hours. Concluded at 15:54 hours and then 23 it identifies the other people or -- and it shows, I think, 24 that Mr. Moore -- David Moore was in attendance at that 25 interview?

1 A: He was, yes. 2 Q: Right. Okay. So I take it, Mr. Domi, 3 that you knew that it was important to cooperate in this 4 police investigation? 5 A: Yes. 6 Q: By telling the truth and the whole truth? 7 A: That's right. 8 Q: And indeed MFP and Mr. Moore no doubt 9 encouraged you to be as helpful to the police as you possibly 10 could? 11 A: That's true. Yes, that's correct. 12 Q: Let me take you then to page 8 of the 13 transcript of that interview. Are you on page 8, sir? 14 A: Yes, I am. 15 Q: And there's a number of questions that 16 lead up to, sort of, general stuff about whether or not, MFP 17 was ever asked to give extra money, see all that? 18 A: Yes, I do. 19 Q: And then new topic at the bottom of the 20 page, Detective Sergeant Karski: 21 "Q: What's your -- 22 And by the way, Mr. Domi, I've listened, I've 23 watched and listened to the audio visual tape -- 24 A: I'm sorry, what page are you on? 25 Q: Bottom of page 8.

1 A: Okay. 2 MADAM COMMISSIONER: Very last sentence. 3 THE WITNESS: Okay. 4 5 CONTINUED BY MS. LINDA ROTHSTEIN: 6 Q: Because as you'll see there's some 7 inaudible parts and there's some parts that I was concerned 8 weren't accurate. And certainly to the best of my ability, I 9 can confirm that this is an accurate transcript. 10 I know I'm not giving evidence, but I just 11 thought I'd tell you that. 12 So, at the very bottom of page 8, do you find 13 AK, in colons? The very bottom of page 8, Mr. Domi: 14 "AK: what's your recollection with specific 15 Councillors?" 16 A: I'm sorry -- 17 MADAM COMMISSIONER: If you look at -- 18 THE WITNESS: What's the Begdoc number, 19 please? 20 MADAM COMMISSIONER: 41836. 21 THE WITNESS: 41836 -- okay, I'm sorry -- 22 MADAM COMMISSIONER: No problem. 23 MS. LINDA ROTHSTEIN: Thank you, Commissioner. 24 THE WITNESS: Okay -- 25

1 CONTINUED BY MS. LINDA ROTHSTEIN: 2 Q: Okay, go to the back -- 3 A: I've got it -- 4 Q: Okay, you've got it? 5 A: Yes, I've got it. Thank you. 6 Q: Okay, 41836 at the top? 7 A: Yes. 8 Q: AK at the very bottom? 9 A: Yes. 10 Q: That's Detective Sergeant Karski's 11 question, right? 12 A: Okay. 13 Q: Okay. 14 "Q: What's your recollection with specific 15 Councillors at the City of Toronto? 16 Dash Domi: I don't recall have any strong 17 relationships with Councillors there. I 18 know Councillors, but, I don't have any ah 19 -- I don't have a strong relationship with 20 anybody. 21 Detective Sergeant Karski: Like who? Who 22 do you know in Councillors at the City of 23 Toronto? 24 Dash Domi: Ah, who would I know -- ah I 25 might know Councillor Disero or Arnetti

1 (sic), who else would I know? Now, um, 2 Feld -- Mike Feldman, I know Nunziata, I 3 know maybe half a dozen. I don't really 4 have -- I know Case Ootes, the Deputy 5 Mayor. Um -- That's about it (inaudible). 6 Detective Sergeant Karski: And the 7 previous, again going back to '99, 8 obviously the election was in 2000. What 9 about Councillors at -- during that sort of 10 time frame, any relationships with any 11 Councillors, at that point? 12 Dash Domi: Probably the same ones, I mean 13 the one that's not there now is Councillor 14 Jakobek, I know very little. 15 Detective Sergeant Karski: How would you 16 characterize your relationship with Mr. 17 Jakobek? 18 Dash Domi: Um, I knew him, I mean I didn't 19 have um a relationship with him or -- 20 Detective Sergeant Karski: So you wouldn't 21 characterize that as a friendship? 22 Dash Domi: No. 23 Detective Sergeant Karski: Or a -- 24 Dash Domi: No. 25 Detective Sergeant Karski: Acquaintance?

1 Dash Domi: Ah, no. 2 Detective Sergeant Karski: Business? 3 Dash Domi: No. I -- I -- I mean probably 4 same as I knew them all. I mean just kind 5 of. 6 Detective Sergeant Karski: Did you ever 7 make any sales presentations in front of 8 Mr. Jakobek because of his role as the 9 Budget Chair for the City of Toronto?" 10 And then, Mr. Domi, you go on to talk about 11 your two (2) meetings that you had with Councillor Jakobek. 12 A: Yes. 13 Q: And I'll take you to that in a moment. 14 A: Okay. 15 Q: You knew Mr. Jakobek just kind of? 16 A: Well, no, I mean I just it wasn't -- I 17 mean in my opinion, I kind of -- like I said, I worked hard 18 to get to know him. He wasn't an easy guy to get to know, as 19 we've said before. 20 Q: It's not true is it, Mr. Domi? 21 A: Well, no, I wouldn't say it's not true, 22 no. He's not an easy guy to get to know. Do I consider him 23 a friend? Not particularly. I should have said there, a 24 business acquaintance, sure. 25 But, it's not easy to be answered by --

1 questioned by OPP or anybody in that capacity and feel 2 comfortable. I just didn't feel comfortable with the whole 3 -- whole feeling of being there. 4 I mean when I was there, I was like, what am I 5 doing here, so -- 6 Q: You don't think you misled the OPP about 7 your relationship with Tom Jakobek? 8 A: I mean I wouldn't -- I was just nervous 9 basically, that's the problem I had, I was nervous being 10 questioned like that. 11 Q: Not a friendship you told the OPP? 12 A: No, I wouldn't say I had a friendship 13 with him, no. 14 Q: Here's what you said to Mr. Manes on 15 January the 27th, 2003, Page 18. Question -- question 19, 16 Commissioner, on that page. 17 "Q: Now I asked you before whether there 18 was an -- anything at your company at MFP 19 that prohibited you from befriending a 20 client." 21 And you agreed: 22 "No there wasn't. 23 A: Not that I know of. 24 Q: All right. You had, by October 15th, 25 1999, befriended Mr. Nigro?

1 A: Yes. 2 Q: Ms. Liczyk? 3 A: Yes. 4 Q: Mr. Andrew? 5 A: Correct. 6 Q: And Mr. Jakobek? 7 A: Correct." 8 A: Okay. That's fine. 9 Q: That's not what you told the OPP, is it? 10 A: Well, I was very nervous. 11 Q: Not even an acquaintance or a business 12 relationship? 13 A: I was -- I was very nervous about the 14 time so that's all I can say. 15 Q: Mr. Domi, thus far you've testified that 16 you invited Tom Jakobek to fly to Philadelphia for a hockey 17 game? 18 A: Right. 19 Q: That you invited Tom Jakobek to many 20 events? 21 A: That's correct. 22 Q: That you had lunch with him at least a 23 few times? 24 A: Yes. 25 Q: That you had dinner with him at least a

1 couple of times? 2 A: That's right. 3 Q: That you had Tom Jakobek's unlisted phone 4 number? 5 A: That's right. 6 Q: Have you ever had the private unlisted 7 phone number of any other Councillor at the City of Toronto? 8 A: Not that I know of, no. 9 Q: You would know if you did, surely? 10 A: Correct. 11 Q: Have you ever called any other Councillor 12 at home? 13 A: I'm not sure. I -- I don't think so. 14 Q: Surely you would know, Mr. Domi. 15 A: I don't know. I mean, I may have but I - 16 - I just -- I can't point a finger on it, really. There's no 17 reason to really. 18 Q: Can you think of another Councillor that 19 you even might have called at home? 20 A: Well -- 21 Q: We need to know. 22 A: -- I don't know if people forward their 23 calls to their home or not. I don't know. 24 Q: Can you think -- 25 A: No.

1 Q: -- of another Councillor that you knew 2 you were calling at home? 3 A: No. 4 Q: But you told the OPP, Mr. Domi, that you 5 knew Mr. Jakobek the same as you knew the other Councillors. 6 A: I -- I -- I -- I still -- I consider that 7 yes because I mean, he wasn't a very friendly guy as many of 8 the other Councillors are that I like. So that's all. 9 Q: Tom Jakobek invited you to go golfing at 10 the Hunt Club in September '99. 11 A: Correct. 12 Q: He then invited you back to his house for 13 drinks after the round? 14 A: Yes. 15 Q: You didn't tell the OPP any of that, did 16 you? 17 A: Well, I mean, he would ask me about golf - 18 - I mean, I didn't remember the golf game until Mr. Manes 19 brought it up. 20 Q: How would they know that you'd golfed 21 with Mr. Jakobek when you denied he was even an acquaintance? 22 A: Well, I don't know. 23 Q: They wouldn't, would they? 24 A: Who knows. Who knows who they speak to. 25 Q: Here's what you said to Mr. Manes on the

1 22nd of January 2003 at Page 149, Question 1. 2 "Q: Developing relations and as you went 3 along it would be strong relations. Is 4 that -- 5 A: I don't know. 6 Q: -- right? 7 A: I don't know at what point I would 8 consider strong relations. 9 Q: Well, at some point you would consider 10 that you had strong relationships with Tom 11 Jakobek, Wanda Liczyk, and Jim Andrews. Is 12 that fair to say from your evidence? 13 A: That -- yes." 14 That's not what you told the OPP is it, Mr. 15 Domi? 16 A: I guess not. It wasn't an easy thing, 17 being involved or questioned about having that whole fiasco, 18 so. 19 Q: Looking back, do you think you misled the 20 OPP, sir? 21 A: I -- I don't think I misled, no. Why 22 would I mislead? I -- I have no reason to mislead them. I 23 totally cooperated. 24 Q: Well, let's look at your cell phone 25 records then and see what they tell us.

1 A: Okay. 2 3 (BRIEF PAUSE) 4 5 Q: So if you can look at Volume 2, I take it 6 Mr. Domi that you've had a chance, at least briefly, to 7 review the summaries -- 8 A: Yes. 9 Q: -- that my law firm prepared? 10 A: Yes. 11 Q: And have you detected any inaccuracies in 12 those summaries, sir, in your review? 13 A: No. I don't -- I don't know what -- 14 Q: I'm sure you can't verify their accuracy. 15 A: Yeah. 16 Q: I'm not asking you to do that. I'm 17 simply asking if you already know of some inaccuracies? 18 A: No. 19 Q: And I take it you well let me know if, as 20 we go through this, there appear to be some? 21 A: There's a lot of calls here. I don't 22 know what's inaccurate. I couldn't -- 23 Q: I'm simply inviting you, Mr. Domi, to 24 tell me -- 25 A: That's fine.

1 Q: -- if it looks like something's 2 inaccurate, if that's how it appears to you? 3 A: It's fine. 4 Q: Fine. Now, before we start, other than 5 the three (3) numbers that we reviewed as being listed in 6 your address book yesterday with respect to Mr. Jakobek, I 7 take it that there was at least one (1) other phone number 8 that you used to call him at? 9 A: Yes. 10 Q: Am I right? 11 A: Yes. 12 Q: All right. And that is the number that 13 starts with 709? 14 A: Okay. 15 Q: 416-709; is that right, sir? 16 A: Yes. 17 Q: All right. And that is the number that 18 has a separate listing in -- at Tab number 57? 19 A: Okay. 20 Q: Take a look. 21 MADAM COMMISSIONER: Volume 2. 22 THE WITNESS: Volume 2. 23 24 CONTINUED BY MS. LINDA ROTHSTEIN: 25 Q: Of Volume 2.

1 2 (BRIEF PAUSE) 3 4 A: Okay, I'm there. 5 Q: Am I right that all fifty-six (56) calls 6 from your cell phone, listed there, are to a 709 number that 7 belongs -- 8 A: That's right. 9 Q: -- to Tom Jakobek? 10 A: That's right. 11 Q: Right. And all of the calls listed at 12 Tab 51 to three (3) different numbers, a total of a hundred 13 and forty-four (144) calls made from your cell phone, were 14 made to Mr. Jakobek? 15 A: In what time period? 16 Q: In the time period 03/15/99, that is 17 March 15th, '99. 18 A: Okay. 19 Q: Until the 7th of June, 2002. 20 MR. PAUL CAVALLUZZO: If I could interject 21 with an objection. 22 MADAM COMMISSIONER: Yes, sir. 23 MR. PAUL CAVALLUZZO: The -- if we look at 24 that page, the number 416-392-7915 -- 25 MADAM COMMISSIONER: Mr. --

1 MR. PAUL CAVALLUZZO: I'm sorry. 2 MADAM COMMISSIONER: -- Mr. Cavalluzzo, we 3 agreed yesterday we wouldn't say the entire number. 4 MR. PAUL CAVALLUZZO: Well, it's a City 5 number. 6 MADAM COMMISSIONER: Oh, okay, I'm sorry, I'm 7 sorry. 8 MR. PAUL CAVALLUZZO: But in any event -- 9 MADAM COMMISSIONER: Yes. 10 MR. PAUL CAVALLUZZO: -- that number -- 11 MADAM COMMISSIONER: Yes. 12 MR. PAUL CAVALLUZZO: -- in the telephone 13 directory, is the number of four (4) people. We were told 14 that we were going to get the June 1999 City Directory. I 15 understand that's going to be produced. 16 I do have a City Directory from November of 17 1999, and that directory indicates, and I assume it's the 18 same as in June of 1999, I do not have that -- but that 19 particular number indicates that there are, besides Mr. 20 Jakobek, there are three (3) other people with that phone 21 number. I can give you the names, but there is the 22 Administrative Assistant to Mr. Jakobek, with that number. 23 The Constituency Assistant, with that number, and the 24 Executive Assistant with that number. 25 So, I just want that to be clear at the

1 outset. 2 MS. LINDA ROTHSTEIN: Thank you, Mr. 3 Cavalluzzo. 4 5 CONTINUED BY MS. LINDA ROTHSTEIN: 6 Q: This is the number, the 392-7915 number, 7 is one (1) of the three (3) numbers that you had listed in 8 your address book, we went through -- 9 A: Right. 10 Q: -- it yesterday. 11 A: Right. 12 Q: Next to Mr. Jakobek's name? 13 A: Right. 14 Q: So, can we agree, Mr. Domi, that that was 15 his main office number at City Hall? 16 A: Yes, I believe so. 17 Q: And you wouldn't necessarily get through 18 to him directly if you called that number? 19 A: That's correct. 20 Q: Okay. Now, were there any other phone 21 numbers between your start at MFP and today, sir, that you 22 have used to reach Mr. Jakobek? For example, a phone number 23 at the Toronto East General Hospital? 24 A: I -- I may have, but I don't know. 25 Q: You certainly don't know what that number

1 is off the top of your head? 2 A: No, East General was a prospect list for 3 Mr. Nigro, and he kind of -- I -- 4 Q: Sorry, tell me about that? 5 A: No, I -- it -- it was a prospect -- 6 MADAM COMMISSIONER: It was a prospect list 7 for Mr. Nigro. 8 THE WITNESS: Mr. Nigro and myself, so I -- 9 he was the one (1) that was more involved in East General 10 than I would be really. 11 I mean if -- if I called there, it was maybe 12 through Vince or -- 13 14 CONTINUED BY MS. LINDA ROTHSTEIN: 15 Q: But it might have just been a place where 16 you could reach Mr. Jakobek; correct? 17 A: If I needed to. 18 Q: Hmm hmm. And do you -- can you tell us 19 whether or not your cell phone records will show that you 20 were making calls to Mr. Jakobek's office at Toronto East 21 General? 22 A: I don't know the number there, East 23 General. 24 Q: So you can't answer my question? 25 A: No, I cannot.

1 Q: Okay. And the 709 number for Mr. Jakobek 2 that you've just agreed at Tab 57, is indeed one (1) of his 3 cell phone numbers; is that fair? 4 A: Yes. 5 Q: How do you know that number without it 6 being in your address book? 7 A: I just know it, I don't know. 8 Q: You just know it off the top of your 9 head? 10 A: Well, no, I mean, I don't now how, I just 11 know it. 12 Q: Well, either you have to look at a piece 13 of paper -- 14 A: Yes. 15 Q: -- to know it; right? Or you have to 16 know it by heart, there's only two (2) options, are there 17 not? 18 A: Well maybe I have it written down 19 somewhere, I don't know, I just -- it was a new number I 20 guess, so. 21 Q: Well, let's just go through this slowly 22 though, sir -- 23 A: There's only one (1) number that I can 24 reach him at, I felt. Whether it was his home or that cell 25 number, period.

1 Q: This 709 -- 2 A: Yes. 3 Q: -- number? 4 A: Yes. 5 Q: Okay. Became the number that you felt 6 you could reach him at, starting at the first entry on Tab 7 number 57 in October of 2000? 8 A: Yeah, I -- 9 Q: Okay. 10 A: -- that's -- 11 Q: That was the main number you used then? 12 A: Yeah, that's probably the only number. 13 Q: Okay, and are you telling us that because 14 that was the only number you were reaching him at other -- in 15 addition to his home phone number from time to time, that you 16 knew the 709 number by heart? 17 A: Yeah. 18 Q: Okay. 19 20 (BRIEF PAUSE) 21 22 Q: Any other numbers at which you regularly 23 called Mr. Jakobek than the three (3) that were in your 24 address book, the 709 number that you knew by heart, possibly 25 Toronto East General, any others?

1 A: No. 2 Q: All right, so let's turn to Tab 51, if we 3 can please? 4 5 (BRIEF PAUSE) 6 7 Q: Starting at the beginning. We know from 8 looking at this summary, that between the 15th of March, 1999 9 and the 7th of June, 2002, you placed a total of a hundred 10 and forty-four (144) calls to one (1) of the three (3) 11 numbers listed in your address book; right? 12 A: I'm sorry, say it again? 13 Q: Between the 15th day of March, '99 and 14 the 7th day of June, 2002, you made a hundred and forty-four 15 (144) calls to one (1) of the three (3) numbers for Mr. 16 Jakobek listed in your address book? 17 A: Right. 18 Q: A hundred and thirty-five (135) of those 19 calls were made between March 15th, 1999 and October the 20 12th; right? Go to row number 135 on page 4 -- 21 A: Yeah, okay. 22 Q: Right. 23 MADAM COMMISSIONER: That's October the 12th 24 of which year? 25 MS. LINDA ROTHSTEIN: Of 2000, thank you,

1 Commissioner. 2 MADAM COMMISSIONER: Hmm hmm. 3 4 CONTINUED BY MS. LINDA ROTHSTEIN: 5 Q: And then -- and this gets a bit awkward, 6 so what I'm going to suggest to you, Mr. Domi, is that you 7 actually -- and Commissioner too, because it's regrettable 8 that we have to do it in this awkward way. 9 Pull out of your Tab number 57, so you can -- 10 we can look at them together chronologically. Can you do 11 that, Mr. Domi, for me? 12 A: I can do that. 13 Q: Okay. But just mark it at the top, 57, 14 so you can follow along. 15 16 (BRIEF PAUSE) 17 18 A: Okay. 19 Q: It would appear that there were some 20 other October 2000 calls to the 705 -- 709 number, that's 21 demonstrated by Tab 57; correct? 22 A: Okay. 23 Q: A couple of calls in December of 2000, 24 rows 3 and 4. Or actually those are all October, forgive me, 25 those are all October calls; right?

1 A: Okay, right. 2 Q: From rows 1 to 5? 3 A: Right. 4 Q: And then there don't appear to be any 5 calls made by you between October 2000 and February of 2001? 6 A: Right. 7 Q: Right. You then have a number of calls 8 in February of 2001, to the 709 number; correct? 9 A: Correct. 10 Q: You have a number of calls in May 2001, 11 to the 709 number? 12 A: Right. 13 Q: Right. A number of calls in July 2001, 14 to the 709 number? Correct? 15 A: 70 -- okay. 16 Q: And through September -- and into 17 September, nothing in July and August, but into September 09, 18 2001; correct? 19 A: Right. 20 Q: To the 709 number? 21 22 (BRIEF PAUSE) 23 24 Q: Row number 23 on Tab 57 is one (1) call 25 in October 2001, right? To the 709 number?

1 A: I'm sorry what Tab are you on? 2 Q: Row 23 -- 3 MADAM COMMISSIONER: 57. 4 THE WITNESS: Okay. 5 6 CONTINUED BY MS. LINDA ROTHSTEIN: 7 Q: Of Tab 57, is a call made on the 4th of 8 October, 2001 to the 709 number, correct? 9 A: Okay. 10 Q: There's also row 136 on Tab 51, shows -- 11 MADAM COMMISSIONER: Which sorry? 12 MS. LINDA ROTHSTEIN: On Tab 51 -- 13 MADAM COMMISSIONER: I just didn't hear your 14 number. 15 MS. LINDA ROTHSTEIN: Row 136. 16 MADAM COMMISSIONER: Okay. 17 18 CONTINUED BY MS. LINDA ROTHSTEIN: 19 Q: There's a call on that same day, to the 20 699 number; right, Mr. Domi? 21 A: Right. 22 Q: And if we go back to Tab 57, row 24, 23 there's a call in December 2001, to the 709 number, correct? 24 Correct, Mr. Domi? 25 A: I'm sorry you lost me there, which number?

1 Q: There's -- at row 24 of Tab 57 -- 2 A: Okay. 3 Q: -- there's a call in November 2001, 4 correct -- 11/02/2001 -- 5 A: Okay, I see that. 6 Q: -- to the 709 number? 7 A: Yes. 8 Q: Followed by some calls in December to the 9 709 number -- 10 A: Right. 11 Q: There's calls in December 2001, to the 699 12 number? 13 A: Okay. 14 Q: Right. 15 A: Right. 16 Q: And then calls in January of 2002, and so 17 on? 18 A: Yes. 19 Q: Right? All the way through to September 20 11th of 2002, right? 21 A: Right. 22 Q: Have you made any calls to Mr. Jakobek, 23 since September 11th, 2002? 24 A: I haven't spoke to him in ages. 25 Q: Have you made any calls to Mr. Jakobek,

1 since? 2 A: I may have. 3 Q: You may have? 4 A: Yes. 5 Q: So that might be to a number that we don't 6 have? 7 A: No, I mean those are the only numbers that 8 I know of basically. 9 Q: Well, surely you know whether there's any 10 other numbers that you would have called him at, after 11 September of last year? 12 A: Those are the numbers that I have of his. 13 Q: Okay. Let's go back to Tab 51, if we may. 14 A: Okay. 15 Q: Those are the calls to the three (3) 16 numbers that were listed in your address book, sir. Tab 51 17 reveals that in May '99, you made twenty (20) calls to one 18 (1) of those three (3) numbers, right? 19 A: Right. 20 Q: We know that May 1, was the day before the 21 flight to Montreal. Mr. Manes has already asked you a lot of 22 calls -- a lot of questions about that particular telephone 23 call -- 24 A: Right -- 25 Q: -- you remember that, sir, right?

1 A: Yes. Okay. 2 Q: On May the 7th, sir, you made four (4) 3 calls to Tom Jakobek? 4 A: Looking -- yes. 5 Q: Rows 9 through 12? 6 A: Yes, I see that. 7 Q: Three (3) times on his cell phone, 543? 8 A: Yes. 9 Q: Once at the office? 10 A: Correct. 11 Q: Mr. Domi? 12 A: Yes? 13 Q: Is it merely a coincidence that that is 14 one (1) day before the Morton's of Chicago receipt, dated May 15 the 8th, 1999? Remember that Morton's of Chicago receipt 16 that has Mr. Jakobek's name on it? 17 A: Yes. 18 Q: Is that a coincidence? 19 A: Well, I don't know, it could be a 20 coincidence, yes. 21 Q: You don't remember why you called him -- 22 A: I mean I -- 23 Q: -- those four (4) times on May the 7th? 24 A: -- well, there's a minute and eleven (11) 25 seconds, I don't know -- I called him often, whether he liked

1 it or not. I'm sure he didn't like it, but I did. 2 Q: Did he tell you he didn't like it? 3 A: I could sense it. 4 Q: So, you decided to keep calling a very 5 influential person at the City, even though he didn't like 6 it, Mr. Domi? 7 A: Yeah, that was my -- 8 Q: Where did you learn that in sales school? 9 A: It's just the way I am. 10 Q: You thought that would be an effective way 11 of getting support for your company at City Hall? 12 A: No, I felt it would be an effective way 13 for us to get in front of him, basically. 14 Q: Are you telling the Commissioner you were 15 pestering Mr. Jakobek? 16 A: I wouldn't say I was pestering. I 17 wouldn't say I was pestering, I'm a sales guy, a salesman. I 18 do my best. I don't think there was anything wrong with 19 calling him, anyway. 20 Q: Are you -- 21 A: So -- 22 Q: -- are you telling the Commissioner that 23 you kept calling what you've identified as a key decision 24 maker in May of 1999, as you've described them, over his 25 objection?

1 A: No. I mean, I've invited him places. I 2 -- many things. Personal. I -- I don't know. I don't know. 3 I can't -- I mean, May of '99, me calling someone, I -- I 4 don't know what topic of discussion or April or March. I -- 5 I just don't know. 6 Q: Let's try -- 7 A: Four (4) -- 8 Q: -- June of '99. 9 A: -- and a half years ago. 10 Q: You made nineteen (19) calls -- 11 A: Right. 12 Q: -- to Mr. Jakobek's numbers in the month 13 of June. Right? 14 A: Yes, it looks that way. 15 Q: Four (4) on June the 14th, 1999, after 16 MFP's bid was submitted on June the 11th. 17 A: Right. 18 Q: One (1) on each of June 22 and 28. 19 A: Right. 20 Q: Why were you calling him, sir? 21 A: I don't know, I mean, I just was. 22 Q: Were you arranging -- 23 A: I was -- 24 Q: Sorry. 25 MADAM COMMISSIONER: I'm sorry.

1 THE WITNESS: I may have been inviting him 2 somewhere. I mean, trying to get a set up -- I don't know, 3 like a lot of functions were going on and I think there was 4 an election happening at the time. I'm not sure if that was 5 the summer or not, I think it was. 6 But -- 7 MS. LINDA ROTHSTEIN: June of '99 there was 8 an election going on? 9 MR. PAUL CAVALLUZZO: Yes, there -- 10 Objection. Please don't mislead. Yes, there was an election 11 going on. 12 MS. LINDA ROTHSTEIN: I don't recall -- 13 MADAM COMMISSIONER: To be fair, Mr. 14 Cavalluzzo -- 15 MR. PAUL CAVALLUZZO: Yeah. 16 MADAM COMMISSIONER: -- I don't think she was 17 misleading. She just asked a question -- 18 MR. PAUL CAVALLUZZO: Well, wi -- wi -- 19 MADAM COMMISSIONER: -- whether there was an 20 election. 21 MR. PAUL CAVALLUZZO: -- with the -- with the 22 tone. You know, there is a to -- a certain tone that is 23 being put to these questions and that's what -- maybe is not 24 reflected on the record but I've certainly noticed it. 25 Yes, there was a provincial election on June

1 3rd of 1999. 2 MS. LINDA ROTHSTEIN: Sorry, I misunderstand 3 the q -- answer I got. I thought we were talking about 4 municipal politics, Mr. Cavalluzzo. 5 6 CONTINUED BY MS. LINDA ROTHSTEIN: 7 Q: You're referring to the provincial 8 election, sir? 9 A: Yes. I mean -- 10 Q: Okay. 11 A: -- it could have been a topic of 12 discussion. I mean, many things that I would attempt to 13 discuss with him if I could to see what his interests w -- if 14 he had an interest or -- 15 Q: See, you didn't tell us about this 16 yesterday. Are you telling me that you and Tom Jakobek were 17 involved in the provincial election in some way? 18 A: No, I'm not saying that. No. 19 Q: So you're telling us then that you phoned 20 Tom Jakobek to talk provincial c -- politics. 21 A: I'm not saying -- I'm not saying I phoned 22 Tom Jakobek in May of '99, to talk about politics for June. 23 I don't know what I was discussing. I'm sure I was 24 discussing something. Conversations were forty-two (42) 25 seconds, forty-three (43) seconds, a minute and fifty (50)

1 seconds. 2 I -- I don't know. I -- I -- I don't know 3 what -- I can't remember -- recall what I was talking about 4 four (4) and a half years ago. 5 Q: I'm not really asking you what you were 6 talking about in a specific phone call, Mr. Domi. 7 A: Well, that's what -- 8 Q: I'm not -- 9 A: -- you asked me. 10 Q: No, no. I'm asking you why, what the 11 purpose of your calls would be to Mr. Jakobek, the Budget 12 Chief -- 13 A: Right. 14 Q: -- after the MFP bid was submitted on 15 June the 11th, what would the purpose of your calls be, sir? 16 A: I don't know. I mean, I was calling for 17 reasons maybe. Personal, I don't know. I can't remember 18 what I was calling about. 19 I mean, we submitted a deal, good for you. 20 What would he say, really? 21 Q: You may have been inviting him to 22 breakfast? 23 A: S -- I put out many invitations to him. 24 Q: Lunch, dinner maybe? 25 A: Absolutely, yes.

1 Q: You don't have any distinct recollection 2 of that? 3 A: Specific -- like specific as in telling 4 you where I invited him, what I did? Well -- 5 Q: Anything resembling that? 6 A: Four (4) and a half years ago I don't. 7 Q: You remember it would have been that you 8 were phoning to get together with him for a meal because you 9 thought you needed to get in front of him for a meal in order 10 to really make your pitch? 11 Even that, Mr. Domi, would be of assistance to 12 the Commissioner. 13 A: Sure. 14 Q: Don't just say sure. 15 A: How is that? Yes. 16 Q: No, it's not helpful. It's not helpful. 17 MADAM COMMISSIONER: I think what Ms. 18 Rothstein is asking you is that she understands that four (4) 19 and a half years ago you might not remember exactly what the 20 conversation was when you phoned Mr. Jakobek for one (1) 21 minuted and eleven (11) seconds. 22 What she -- what she's now asking you is do 23 you remember, just generally, even calling him in that time 24 period to suggest getting together for breakfast, lunch or 25 dinner in order to be able to make your pitch to him after

1 MFP has put in its RF -- its response to the RFQ. 2 At some point you said sure so I'm not sure if 3 you're -- 4 THE WITNESS: Well, Commissioner -- 5 MADAM COMMISSIONER: -- accepting that. 6 THE WITNESS: Actually, it's -- I'd say at 7 that point our submission was in, so I don't know what, if 8 any, assistance at that point -- when I say assistance, 9 discussing what. 10 I mean our -- we had submitted our -- numbers 11 speak louder than words, really. Our -- our submission, so 12 it could have been personal. 13 I'm trying to -- I mean I've been at this for 14 three (3) months now, trying to continuous -- I mean I start 15 -- well, the first call I see here is March 15th, '99. So, I 16 mean how strong could my relationship have been two and a 17 half (2 1/2) months later? I'm trying -- I'm working at it, 18 I mean it's simple. It's like everybody else building their 19 clientele in their business. 20 MADAM COMMISSIONER: And so would you have 21 been in on those calls that you were making to him, then 22 after you had submitted your bid, and as you say the numbers 23 speak for themselves. Were you calling them to talk to him 24 about the bid that MFP had made? 25 THE WITNESS: I -- I may have mentioned

1 something, Commissioner, but not particularly, I mean what -- 2 what can I really say, I mean there's nothing I -- I could 3 say to talk to that point, I mean they're in. 4 I don't know who else was submitting, I mean 5 there was a lot of hoopla with our -- regarding this, and I 6 just -- I'm a sales guy just trying to understand who was who 7 and who was what. 8 I mean I was at this one (1), as you see 9 there, the first call was March 15th, and two and a half (2 10 1/2) months later, I'm making a call there two (2) months 11 later. 12 At the same time, I mean, I don't know, I'm 13 still working at understanding, really. I mean the first 14 call I made was March 15th until this one (1), I mean it's -- 15 I don't know, just working at it. 16 MADAM COMMISSIONER: Okay, thanks. 17 THE WITNESS: Sorry. 18 19 CONTINUED BY MS. LINDA ROTHSTEIN: 20 Q: But, Mr. Domi, what you've just said is 21 that by June 11th, you'd submitted your bid -- 22 A: Right. 23 Q: -- numbers speak louder than words? 24 A: As far as I'm concerned, yes. 25 Q: So what was there left for you to

1 understand that would help the MFP bid? 2 A: Well, firstly, I'd have -- it's a wait 3 and see game, if we win, we win, but I was looking forward to 4 my -- hoping to do -- understand if there was other 5 opportunities in the City, if there was I mean you're as good 6 as your next deal, not as good as your last one, like they 7 say. 8 So, that's my goal, that's what I was trying 9 to do. 10 Q: Are you telling the Commissioner, sir, 11 that by June of '99 you were calling Mr. Jakobek in an effort 12 to pursue other business with the City of Toronto? 13 A: Just -- I was trying to make a presence 14 in the City of Toronto for myself and my company, yes. Since 15 I've been at it for three (3) months now. 16 Q: Do you remember what, if anything, Mr. 17 Jakobek said at any time you managed to reach him? 18 A: Well he was always very short with me. 19 There wasn't anything I could have said to him he didn't 20 know, really. He always had the answers, I mean -- 21 Q: Did he tell you anything about the 22 process, the bid process and how it worked? 23 A: No, not -- 24 Q: Nothing? 25 A: -- he just -- you know, he -- we would --

1 we'd have to come with the best bid, I mean he was very 2 candid about that, period. 3 Q: Period, that's all he ever told you? 4 A: Well, no, I mean it's -- I mean what else 5 could he say to me? 6 Q: You tell me. I have no idea. 7 A: That's all essentially. You guys go in 8 with the best bid, I mean you -- like that's it I guess and I 9 mean there's nothing he could really say to me, we're 10 submitting a deal, personally I don't think he understands 11 technology then, or I don't know if he may now, who knows. 12 Q: So if it was all about just going in with 13 the best bid, then why, Mr. Domi, did you call him eleven 14 (11) times in July 1999? 15 A: I was in pursuit of building 16 relationships, if you're going into the fourth month of 17 myself working on the account, so that's what I'm trying to 18 do, as yourselves or anybody else building a business, four 19 (4) months in, that's what I'm trying to do. 20 Q: And surely, Mr. Domi, it wasn't enough 21 simply to build your business by making short phone calls to 22 Mr. Jakobek. You had to meet with him, you had to have lunch 23 with him -- 24 A: I -- 25 Q: -- you had to --

1 A: -- I was trying. I was trying, but like 2 I said, he was very short with me, but I'd try and -- I tried 3 to. 4 Q: Are you telling the Commissioner that 5 through to July of '99 these are all failed attempts? 6 A: Well, I don't know what they were, I mean 7 I was attempting to, like I said, build a relationship, build 8 an understanding. I mean I was into it four (4) months, four 9 (4) months into it, so I don't know what else to say. 10 Q: Mr. Domi, the report to the -- to the 11 Policy and Finance Committee we know was finalized on the 12 12th of July, 1999? Right? 13 A: Right. 14 Q: You knew Mr. Jakobek was on that 15 committee? 16 A: Right. 17 Q: You knew he'd be reviewing that report? 18 A: He would be, I suppose, I don't know. 19 Q: Well, if he's on the Committee, he 20 reviews the report to his Committee; right? 21 A: I don't know if they're all -- I don't -- 22 sure -- sure, okay. 23 Q: Is there any doubt about that? 24 A: I don't know if there's any doubts, 25 but --

1 MR. PAUL CAVALLUZZO: Just if I could 2 interject -- 3 THE WITNESS: Fair enough. 4 MR. PAUL CAVALLUZZO: -- My Friend has said 5 July 12th -- 6 MS. LINDA ROTHSTEIN: Hmm hmm. That's the 7 date the report was finalized, the actual meeting of P&F was 8 on the 20th of July, '99. 9 MR. PAUL CAVALLUZZO: Right, but I have a 10 report dated July 8th. 11 MS. LINDA ROTHSTEIN: The final version was 12 July the 12th, Mr. Cavalluzzo. 13 MR. PAUL CAVALLUZZO: So July 8th is not the 14 final -- 15 MS. LINDA ROTHSTEIN: July 9th and 8th are not 16 the final versions of the report. 17 MR. PAUL CAVALLUZZO: Thank you. 18 MADAM COMMISSIONER: Thank you. 19 20 CONTINUED BY MS. LINDA ROTHSTEIN: 21 Q: When you were talking to, Mr. Jakobek, in 22 June and July of '99, you knew that he would likely review 23 that report as a member of the P&F Committee; surely you knew 24 that? 25 A: I don't know if I knew that at the time,

1 basically. 2 Q: You're spending all this time, working at 3 your relationship with him, and you weren't able to establish 4 and obtain that basic information, Mr. Domi? 5 A: Well, I don't know if that's basic 6 information. 7 Q: It's available on the website. 8 A: Correct. 9 Q: It's basic information, Mr. Domi. 10 A: Fair enough. 11 Q: It's not even top secret. 12 A: Oh, no -- I don't know. That was a long 13 time ago, like I said, I mean, I tend to talk to him about 14 several things, I don't know -- 15 Q: Well, what else? 16 A: I don't know, personal stuff if I could. 17 Like I said, three and a half months into this, I'm 18 attempting to build a clientele, build a business, as best I 19 can. 20 Q: What sort of personal things? 21 A: I don't know, if he had any interests. 22 Q: Which were? 23 A: I don't know, I don't think he had many 24 interests besides politics. 25 Q: So what other personal things?

1 A: Who knows, I don't know -- I don't 2 remember. I don't remember back then. 3 Q: Funny that. 4 A: Pardon? 5 Q: Well -- 6 MADAM COMMISSIONER: Ms. Rothstein, I think 7 that's more of an editorial comment than -- 8 MR. PAUL CAVALLUZZO: Right -- 9 MS. LINDA ROTHSTEIN: I agree Commissioner. 10 MR. PAUL CAVALLUZZO: -- and just if I just 11 might follow through, I -- do the press have the list of 12 phone calls, so that the press knows that the average length 13 of the phone call here that My Friend is talking about is 14 about thirty (30) seconds? 15 MADAM COMMISSIONER: The media is in another 16 room, upstairs. 17 MR. PAUL CAVALLUZZO: Right. 18 MADAM COMMISSIONER: And they have access to 19 everything we have down here. 20 MR. PAUL CAVALLUZZO: Okay. I just wanted to 21 ensure that because -- 22 MADAM COMMISSIONER: They have everything -- 23 MR. PAUL CAVALLUZZO: -- my witnesses is being 24 -- 25 MADAM COMMISSIONER: -- the only thing they've

1 been told on this is to not publish the numbers. But they 2 have everything that you and I have here. 3 MR. DAVID MOORE: And I know My Friend wants 4 to be fair to the witness, I'm sure she does, but for 5 example, one (1) of the specific dates that was asked about 6 was May the 7th, I believe. 7 And by my count, there's well over a hundred 8 (100) phone calls that particular day, back and forth. And 9 so, in fairness to the record and the witness and to 10 everybody here, a little bit of context for these charges, 11 might be helpful and fair? 12 MS. LINDA ROTHSTEIN: I'm happy to do that, 13 Mr. Moore. 14 15 CONTINUED BY MS. LINDA ROTHSTEIN: 16 Q: Just so we're clear, Mr. Domi, you were 17 always working the phones, were you not? 18 A: I'm a salesman. 19 Q: Just answer the question, sir. You were? 20 A: Yes. 21 Q: You told us that, right? 22 A: Fair enough. 23 Q: Okay. 24 A: And I will keep telling you that. 25 Q: And this only tells us the calls that you

1 made, correct? 2 A: Pardon? 3 Q: This only tells us the -- these charts the 4 calls you made? 5 A: That's right. 6 Q: You received lots of calls? 7 A: I'm sure. 8 Q: You received as many calls, on average, as 9 you made? 10 A: I don't know. 11 Q: You've looked at the cell phone records, 12 shall we look at them? 13 A: I made more calls -- I make more calls 14 than I receive. 15 Q: But you receive lots of calls? 16 A: Sure, I do. 17 Q: And if we look at your cell phone records, 18 will we also see that you were dialing in for your own phone 19 messages frequently? 20 A: Yes. 21 Q: People were leaving you messages? 22 A: Correct. 23 Q: And you're not telling us, Mr. Domi, that 24 Mr. Jakobek never returned a message that you left for him? 25 A: Oh, no, I never said that.

1 Q: He returned calls? 2 A: Yes. 3 Q: And so we can't see from looking at this 4 chart, the calls he made to you, correct? 5 A: Correct. 6 Q: And how long they were? 7 A: I -- that's right. 8 Q: We don't have that information yet? 9 A: Right. 10 Q: And in August of 1999, you made nine (9) 11 calls to him, sir? 12 A: Okay. 13 Q: Those were before you golfed with him on 14 September the 2nd, '99, right? 15 A: Okay, I'm sorry -- I just want to get to 16 it here -- okay, I got it. 17 Q: Rows 56 to 64, Mr. Domi? 18 A: Okay. Yes, I got it. 19 Q: So, all of that was before you went 20 golfing on the 2nd of September, '99? 21 A: Thirty six (36) seconds, thirty nine (39) 22 seconds, thirty three (33) seconds, yes. 23 Q: What does that tell you? 24 A: I don't know, I was attempting to call his 25 central line, I guess.

1 Q: Leaving messages? 2 A: I don't know. I don't know how long 3 leaving messages were at the office. I'm not sure exactly 4 how that works, whether you're leaving messages or talking to 5 someone, I don't know. 6 Q: Let's assume that you called him nine (9) 7 times in August? 8 A: Right. 9 Q: Right. And just left a message? 10 A: Right. 11 Q: Must have been important? 12 A: I don't know, maybe. I put out a lot of 13 invitations to him. 14 Q: Because he was important? 15 A: I felt he was. That's my -- that was my 16 own opinion. 17 Q: The contract had been awarded at that 18 point? 19 A: Yes. 20 Q: You were in the midst of negotiations with 21 the City over the terms, meaning MFP -- 22 A: We were -- 23 Q: -- was in the midst? 24 A: -- we were, yes. 25 Q: The MFP lawyers were working on the formal

1 lease documents at that stage? 2 A: I believe so, yes. 3 Q: The parties were negotiating at arms 4 length? 5 A: That's correct. 6 Q: Why were you calling Mr. Jakobek? 7 A: I don't know. I mean, I'm not allowed to 8 call a Councillor? 9 Q: No, I -- I think you are. I just want to 10 know why? 11 A: Just attempt -- like I said, I'm 12 attempting to still work at my relationship, hoping that 13 there's perhaps other opportunity along the way. I mean, I 14 just -- I didn't really look at just IT, per se. 15 Q: So what sort of opportunities did you 16 have in mind? 17 A: Oh, I don't know. I mean, I -- it was -- 18 I was -- like I said, I was new at it and I was just trying 19 to figure my way through really. 20 Q: You didn't have any particular 21 opportunities in mind? 22 A: No, I mean, wh -- just what you hear in 23 the press. I mean, their subways cars were coming up. I 24 mean, there's other -- I mean, you look at infrastructure. 25 You look at smart buildings. I mean, there's many things you

1 could perhaps lease but the City had their own method of 2 dealing so we -- we accommodated them any way we could. 3 Q: So you kept calling Mr. Jakobek to ask 4 him what other business opportunities there might be -- 5 A: Well, no -- 6 Q: -- for MFP? 7 A: -- I've -- I'd in -- I'd invited him many 8 places. Hockey games, functions, charities often. He had -- 9 had a profile in the City so I'd invite him to a lot of 10 charities which I'm part of many. 11 Q: Hmm hmm. 12 A: So I'm sure I did a lot of that. 13 Q: Hmm hmm, and did he come to a lot of 14 those charity events? 15 A: I -- he went to a lot of charity events. 16 Q: At your invitation, sir? 17 A: No. I mean, a few times at my invitation 18 but he does -- 19 Q: Hmm hmm. 20 A: -- I think he does a lot of that himself. 21 I just see him around a lot. 22 Q: Do you remember the few times at your 23 invitation, sir? 24 A: No, I don't. 25 Q: But are you telling the Commissioner

1 that, in fact, one way or another you regularly had contact 2 with Mr. Jakobek at charity events that you both attended? 3 A: I mean, I would see him at events and 4 shake hands with him as much as any other Councillor that I'd 5 see. No different. 6 Q: No different? 7 A: I -- I didn't feel any different. I mean 8 -- 9 Q: Were you calling any other Councillor at 10 the City of Toronto with this frequently -- 11 A: No. 12 Q: -- frequency through July of '99? 13 A: No, I wasn't. 14 Q: Even close? 15 A: No, I don't think so. 16 Q: Why? 17 A: Just -- no reason. I -- I just -- it was 18 just my personal view that he was a decision maker in the 19 City, a key contact and that was just my personal feeling and 20 that's what I did. No one told me to do it, I just did it on 21 my own. 22 Q: He was a very influential guy at the 23 City? 24 A: I thought he -- besides influential, he 25 was clever. He w -- I'm sure he did the right things for the

1 City, I hope, at all times. So that's all I can say, really. 2 Q: He was an opinion leader at the City? 3 A: Yeah, I'd say he was. 4 Q: He was able to speak to other Councillors 5 and persuade them that his vision and initiatives were 6 worthy? 7 A: I -- I don't know. I mean, other 8 Councillor's would have to speak for that. 9 Q: That was your view of him, sir? 10 A: My view of him is he was a -- he was a 11 strong politician. 12 Q: In what way was he key, to use your 13 words, if it wasn't that he was somebody who could easily -- 14 or who was very good at influencing other Councillors? 15 A: Well, he was the Budget Chief, basically. 16 Q: What does that mean, Mr. Domi? 17 A: Where there's budget constraints or 18 budget problems, that is an area that would probably interest 19 us. 20 Q: So as the Budget Chief who was concerned 21 about keeping the City's budget in good shape from his 22 perspective and a zero (0) tax increase, he would be amenable 23 to leasing opportunities? 24 A: I -- 25 Q: Is that what you're saying?

1 A: No. I mean, I'm not -- I'm not saying 2 that. I mean, I'd like to think he would. I mean, he's -- 3 that he would do the right things whether it's leasing or 4 going to the banks or debenture. I mean, that's -- that's 5 their decision. 6 Q: You were at least hoping that was the 7 case? 8 A: Yeah. 9 Q: Is that what you're telling us? 10 A: Absolutely hoping, yes. 11 Q: And from September to December '99, you 12 made nineteen (19) calls to Mr. Jakobek. 13 MADAM COMMISSIONER: Sorry. The dates again? 14 MS. LINDA ROTHSTEIN: September to December 15 '99. 16 17 CONTINUED BY MS. LINDA ROTHSTEIN: 18 Q: If you look at Rows 65 to 70, there's six 19 (6) calls in September '99. Right? 20 A: Okay. 21 Q: Five (5) calls in October. That's Rows 22 71 to 75. 23 A: Okay. 24 Q: Seven (7) calls in November. That's Rows 25 76 to 82. Right?

1 A: Right. 2 Q: Seven (7) calls in December '99. That's 3 Rows 83 to 89. 4 A: Okay. 5 Q: And are you telling us that those calls 6 were all to ask him whether there was anything about the 7 budget that would help you at MFP? 8 A: Well, no. I mean -- I don't know, I 9 mean, you're just attempting to build a relationship -- 10 Q: And how was that going? 11 A: -- I'm -- I'm attempting to be in front 12 of him as -- I believe as much as I can, because I'm sure 13 there's many other people knocking at the doors of all these 14 Councillors or individuals, that are competitors in the same 15 business, if not they'll be there sooner or later, so -- 16 Q: Did Vince Nigro or Tom Jakobek or anybody 17 else ever give you any information that would lead you 18 reasonably to believe, sir, that anyone who was a competitor 19 of MFP had Mr. Jakobek's unlisted home phone number? 20 A: Oh, I don't know that, I have no idea. 21 Q: Do you have any information that would 22 cause you to believe that? 23 A: I -- I -- I do not know, period. I just 24 don't know. 25 Q: Do you know of any other salesperson who

1 felt at liberty to call him at his unlisted home number? 2 A: You'd have to ask him, I don't know. 3 Q: In January of 2000, three (3) calls? 4 A: Okay. 5 Q: January the 28th, 2000, is interesting 6 only, perhaps, at row 92, because it's call of six (6) 7 minutes and fourteen (14) seconds. 8 A: Okay. 9 Q: Can you assist us as to what you were 10 talking at that length with Mr. Jakobek about, two (2) years 11 ago? 12 A: I don't know. 13 MR. PAUL CAVALLUZZO: Once again I -- I -- 14 once again I'm going to stress this. That number -- that 15 number is the number of four (4) separate people. 16 MADAM COMMISSIONER: Hmm hmm. 17 MS. LINDA ROTHSTEIN: Do you remem -- 18 MR. PAUL CAVALLUZZO: And there's no evidence 19 whatever, that on that occasion he was speaking to Mr. 20 Jakobek. 21 MADAM COMMISSIONER: Okay. 22 23 CONTINUED BY MS. LINDA ROTHSTEIN: 24 Q: Can you assist us, Mr. Domi, as to 25 whether you were speaking to Mr. Jakobek for that length of

1 time? 2 A: With certainty, I don't know. I mean 3 I -- that -- that's a long time obviously, six (6) minutes. 4 I -- I may have been. 5 Q: Did you know any of his Executive 6 Assistants or others in his office well? 7 A: Well I was always nice to -- pleasant to 8 everybody -- 9 Q: I know -- 10 A: -- well, in the sense of -- I don't know, 11 what do you mean by that? 12 Q: Did you know any of them well? 13 A: To say hello or to exchange pleasantries, 14 sure. 15 Q: To talk to them for six (6) minutes or 16 more? 17 A: Well, no. 18 Q: Thank you. In February of 2000, there's 19 seven (7) calls, have I got that right? 20 A: Okay. 21 Q: In March, nine (9) calls. In April 2000 22 there's fifteen (15) calls? 23 What were you calling him about then? 24 A: I don't know. 25 Q: You can't provide us with any --

1 A: Like -- 2 Q: -- more detail about -- 3 A: -- I mean -- 4 Q: -- why -- 5 A: -- why I'm making a call, I mean and I'm 6 looking at these numbers, twenty-one (21) seconds, fifteen 7 (15) seconds, twenty-six (26) seconds, thirty (30) seconds, 8 twenty-two (22) seconds, eighteen (18) seconds, thirty-three 9 (33) -- five (5) seconds, fifty-two (52), like I don't know. 10 I'm attempting to get hold of him, I'm attempting a 11 conversation, I'm -- I'm sure I'm inviting him places. 12 Q: Hmm hmm. And he accepted some of the 13 time? 14 A: Well, yeah, I mean -- 15 Q: He never told you to stop bothering him? 16 A: I wouldn't say directly he told me that, 17 but I -- I called him often, I mean he -- 18 Q: Did he ever tell you to stop -- 19 A: No. 20 Q: -- bothering him? 21 A: Not that I can remember. 22 Q: Because if he had you would have? 23 A: Probably, yes. 24 Q: Yeah. In the summer and fall of 2000, 25 there's just one (1) call in June 2000, as I see it, that's

1 row 131, and two (2) calls in July 2000, that's rows 132 to 2 133. 3 Oh, sorry, Mr. Centa tells me that I'm reading 4 my -- my part wrong, and I do that from time to time. That 5 actually there are a number of calls starting on page 120 -- 6 or row 127 in June of 2000, do you see that, Mr. Domi? 7 A: Yes. 8 Q: I stand corrected. It would appear that 9 from rows 127 to 131, a total of five (5) calls; correct? 10 A: Yes. 11 Q: Okay. And then calls in July of 2000, 12 correct? 13 A: Correct. 14 Q: And then no calls, either to any of those 15 three (3) numbers or to the 709 number, until October. We've 16 gone through that. 17 A: Okay. 18 Q: Can you tell us why you stopped calling 19 him? 20 A: I don't know, I believe -- 21 Q: That doesn't -- that's not helpful to you 22 either to think of it that way? 23 A: How long was -- I did not call him for? 24 Q: Well, these records would suggest that you 25 didn't call him between July 2000 and October 2000?

1 A: I don't know. 2 MADAM COMMISSIONER: I believe there were a 3 couple of calls in July. I thought you said there were. 4 MS. LINDA ROTHSTEIN: Yeah, between the end of 5 July, Commissioner, sorry and -- I should have put it that 6 way, and October. 7 THE WITNESS: I have no specific reason for 8 not calling. Perhaps I was busy doing other things, I don't 9 know, summer time. I'm not sure. 10 11 CONTINUED BY MS. LINDA ROTHSTEIN: 12 Q: Were you away that summer? 13 A: I may have, but, I usually -- in August I 14 -- 15 Q: Two (2) years ago, were you away? 16 A: I don't think I was. I don't usually go 17 away, but -- I stay in the City, shut down for awhile, try to 18 anyway. 19 Q: Although the calls dropped off in the 20 summer of 2000, is it true that you regularly visited Mr. 21 Jakobek in his office, that summer? 22 A: I may have visited him, yes. I don't know 23 about regularly, but, I've -- if I was down there, I'd stop 24 in and say, hello. 25 Q: Is it true that you had, in effect, green

1 light access to see Mr. Jakobek at his office at City Hall, 2 in the summer of 2000? 3 A: No, I wouldn't say that, no. Green light 4 access in what sense? 5 Q: Meaning that if he was in, you were taken 6 in to see him? 7 A: No, I wouldn't say that, no. That's not 8 correct. 9 Q: Are you telling us something that you 10 specifically remember? 11 A: Well, no I didn't have green light access. 12 I mean I -- any different than -- I mean he's a Councillor, I 13 mean I have a right. 14 Q: Well, as you know, Mr. Domi, because I 15 told your Counsel, and he's told you, there is a witness who 16 worked in Mr. Jakobek's summer -- 17 A: Right -- 18 Q: -- worked in Mr. Jakobek's office that 19 summer who will say, that indeed you had, green light access 20 to the Budget Chief, in the summer of 2000? 21 A: I disagree. 22 MR. DAVID MOORE: Well, that's the first I've 23 heard of it -- 24 THE WITNESS: I disagree with that. 25 MR. DAVID MOORE: -- and you know, this raises

1 the type of point I raised yesterday. I'm not acting for Mr. 2 Domi. I am acting for MFP. MFP has tried to cooperate to 3 the best of its ability from the beginning of this Inquiry. 4 And information about witnesses like that or 5 allegations like that, I repeat my request again, to be told 6 of that, if and when Counsel are aware of it. 7 MS. LINDA ROTHSTEIN: Well, I sent Mr. 8 Cavalluzzo an e-mail and a phone message last night and he's 9 Mr. Domi's lawyer and I must confess, that's how I thought of 10 it. 11 But, I hear Mr. Moore loudly on the point, and 12 in the future, everything that I send to Mr. Cavalluzzo, I 13 will send to Mr. Moore. 14 MR. DAVID MOORE: Well, it's not just a matter 15 of the night before. I don't know how long this information 16 has been available. 17 I mean we're trying to respond to Commission 18 Counsel's requests and inquiries and investigate matters 19 ourselves, we have an interest in these matters and the night 20 before, whether it be Mr. Domi, or any other witness, is not 21 particularly helpful. 22 I don't know when this information -- how long 23 it's been known to the City, but I think you understand my 24 views on it. 25 I'll leave it at that for the time being.

1 MR. PAUL CAVALLUZZO: And, as well, I'd like 2 to interject at this point, as well. 3 I would like that witnesses name on the 4 record. 5 MS. LINDA ROTHSTEIN: Her name is LeeAnne 6 Bocter. 7 MR. PAUL CAVALLUZZO: Thank you. 8 MS. LINDA ROTHSTEIN: Mr. Centa, can you help 9 me with her spelling. I don't know that we have that. 10 MR. ROBERT CENTA: I'm not sure that we have 11 it. I believe it's B-O-C-T-E-R. 12 THE WITNESS: Who is she? 13 MS. LINDA ROTHSTEIN: She was working as a 14 part-time receptionist in Mr. Jakobek's office at City Hall 15 in the summer of 2000, I understand. 16 THE WITNESS: That's interesting. 17 18 CONTINUED BY MS. LINDA ROTHSTEIN: 19 Q: You don't remember meeting her? 20 A: No. I have no -- I have no -- I mean 21 there was three (3) people in there. I think they were in 22 there for quite awhile. 23 Q: And your comment, that's interesting, did 24 that mean something? 25 A: Well, no, I mean, I just -- I've never

1 heard the name. I mean Lee Ann worked with me -- Currie, so 2 I would know a Lee Ann. 3 Q: Do you agree with me, that if indeed you 4 had that kind of access, or anyone who was in your position, 5 had that kind of access to Mr. Jakobek, that would be quite 6 significant? 7 A: I didn't have that kind of access, just to 8 walk -- 9 Q: Hypothetically speaking, do you agree with 10 me, Mr. Domi, that any sales person in your position, who had 11 that kind of access to the Budget Chief at the City of 12 Toronto, has quite a standing access? 13 A: I don't know about that. You'd have to 14 break it down on what complete access means. I mean walk in 15 there and I'm here? That's just not, right. No. I 16 disagree. I didn't have that kind of access and that's just 17 not true. 18 I just couldn't walk in there and say, I'm 19 here, hi. 20 Q: I just want to know if you agree that kind 21 of access -- 22 A: Well, no -- 23 Q: -- would be unusual for any sales person? 24 A: I don't know if that's unusual. I don't 25 know what other salespeople do. I just do what I do,

1 basically. 2 MADAM COMMISSIONER: Ms. Rothstein -- 3 MS. LINDA ROTHSTEIN: Yes? 4 MADAM COMMISSIONER: -- are you going on -- 5 MS. LINDA ROTHSTEIN: I am. 6 MADAM COMMISSIONER: -- continuing in this -- 7 in this line? 8 MS. LINDA ROTHSTEIN: This is a convenient a 9 time as any, Commissioner. 10 MADAM COMMISSIONER: Thank you. 11 MR. PAUL CAVALLUZZO: Commissioner, be -- 12 befo -- before the end of the day, in light of the fact that 13 there seems to be a great deal of focus on the relationship 14 between Mr. Domi and Mr. Jakobek, I will be suggesting that 15 Mr. Jakobek be called very -- in the very near future so that 16 much of this can be dealt with while memories are still 17 fresh. Particularly, the way this Inquiry is being reported. 18 MADAM COMMISSIONER: Well, why don't -- why 19 don't you speak with Mr. Manes about that because I know that 20 Mr. Manes has -- I -- I gather Mr. Manes and Counsel have met 21 at various times to discuss a list of who will go when and to 22 the extent possible, we're trying to keep people from having 23 to be called more than once and if Mr. Jakobek were to be 24 called right now, then I think there's a strong likelihood he 25 would have to be called again, so.

86
  1                 MR. PAUL CAVALLUZZO:   Well, maybe --
  2                 MADAM COMMISSIONER:   I'll --
  3                 MR. PAUL CAVALLUZZO:   -- can --
  4                 MADAM COMMISSIONER:   I'll let you deal with
  5  Mr. Manes on that.  Is that all right?
  6                 MR. PAUL CAVALLUZZO:   That's fine.
  7                 MADAM COMMISSIONER:   Then we'll see where we
  8  go.  Okay, until ten (10) to 12:00.
  9                 REGISTRAR:   The Inquiry will recess until ten
 10  (10) to 12:00.
 11  
 12  --- Upon recessing at 11:28 a.m.
 13  
 14  --- Upon resuming at 11:50 a.m.
 15  
 16                 REGISTRAR:   The Inquiry will resume.  Please
 17  be seated.
 18  
 19                   (BRIEF PAUSE)
 20  
 21                 MR. RONALD MANES:   Commissioner?
 22                 MADAM COMMISSIONER:   Yes, Mr. Manes?
 23                 MR. RONALD MANES:   The interview dates for
 24  Mr. Domi --
 25                 MADAM COMMISSIONER:   Yes.

1 MR. RONALD MANES: -- were as follows: July 2 the 4th, September the 4th and then September the 5th into 3 very late in the evening. 4 MR. DAVID MOORE: I would agree with that, 5 although I would not agree that July 4th was really an 6 interview date. That was a date that was advertised in 7 advance simply to be let's come and meet each other and get 8 to see you. 9 There was no preparation of Mr. Domi in 10 advance of that. There were no documents available and -- 11 and it was certainly not, from my point of view, ever 12 intended to be or represented to be an interview date, per 13 se. 14 There was a meeting, there was a discussion 15 with Mr. Domi -- 16 MADAM COMMISSIONER: Okay. 17 MR. DAVID MOORE: -- and then the other two 18 (2) dates went on for some time on each of those occasions. 19 MADAM COMMISSIONER: So that -- the July 4th 20 date, then, Commission Counsel met with Mr. Domi and -- 21 MR. DAVID MOORE: There were several people 22 with MFP. Mr. Wolfraim was one (1) of them and I forget, 23 there may have been one (1) or two (2) others. 24 MR. RONALD MANES: It was Mr. Wolfraim, Mr. 25 Wilkinson and -- and Mr. Domi. I -- I agree with My Friend.

1 It was a general discussion with three (3) -- with the three 2 (3) gentlemen. 3 With respect to Mr. Domi, the discussion was 4 extent enough that we sent a summary of that discussion -- 5 summary notes My Friend Mr. Moore, but we did not have any 6 records or documents available at that point. 7 MADAM COMMISSIONER: Okay. 8 MR. RONALD MANES: So you're quite right 9 saying it was not a -- certainly not a scheduled interview. 10 MADAM COMMISSIONER: Okay. All right. 11 Ready? Okay. 12 MS. LINDA ROTHSTEIN: Thank you very much, 13 Commissioner. 14 15 CONTINUED BY MS. LINDA ROTHSTEIN: 16 Q: Mr. Domi, am I correct that following the 17 November 2000 election, Mr. Jakobek left City Hall in January 18 2001? 19 A: I'm not exactly sure when he left but if 20 that's the date you say he left, that's fair enough. 21 Q: Does that seem right to you, sir? 22 A: Yeah. 23 MADAM COMMISSIONER: When was that, sorry, in 24 2001? 25 MS. LINDA ROTHSTEIN: I believe he was gone

1 from City Hall by January 2001 because the new Councillors 2 are sworn in on that date. 3 THE WITNESS: Okay. 4 MS. LINDA ROTHSTEIN: Does that seem right? 5 THE WITNESS: Okay. Yeah. 6 7 CONTINUED BY MS. LINDA ROTHSTEIN: 8 Q: Yeah. You stayed in touch with him, sir? 9 A: Yes. 10 Q: And why was that? 11 A: No particular reason, really. I mean -- 12 Q: By that point you had a relationship? 13 A: I wasn't friends with him, no. 14 Q: It wasn't purely personal? 15 A: No. He wasn't a friend, he was an 16 acquaintance -- business, I felt. 17 Q: And so what kind of business were you 18 pursuing at that point, Mr. Domi? 19 A: Perhaps he could make an introduction for 20 me or, like, he's a bright guy, he -- I mean I'm always 21 looking to meet people and new opportunities and new horizons 22 if they come up. 23 Q: So, the idea was that he would assist you 24 to get some business at the Toronto East General Hospital, 25 where he took up a position?

1 A: No, I -- that was Vince's -- 2 Q: You weren't part of that? 3 A: I mean indir -- I didn't go to any 4 meetings there -- 5 Q: Okay. 6 A: -- that was Vince's -- Vince's account. 7 Q: So how was Mr. Jakobek going to help you 8 with business when he started his job at Toronto East General 9 Hospital? 10 A: I don't know, I mean he knows a lot of 11 people, and a bright guy. 12 Q: So did he put you in contact with a lot 13 of people that he knew? 14 A: No, not really, no. 15 Q: So nothing was really working, but you 16 were calling? 17 A: Yes, we just kept -- I kept in touch with 18 him. 19 Q: Okay. 20 A: I keep in touch with a lot of people. 21 Q: And you kept in touch with him even after 22 he left the Toronto East General Hospital, which I 23 understand, Mr. Domi, was in November 2001? 24 A: Yes. 25 Q: Why?