1 2 3 IPPERWASH PUBLIC INQUIRY 4 5 6 7 ******************** 8 9 10 BEFORE: THE HONOURABLE JUSTICE SIDNEY LINDEN, 11 COMMISSIONER 12 13 14 15 16 Held at: Forest Community Centre 17 Kimball Hall 18 Forest, Ontario 19 20 21 ******************** 22 23 24 July 13th, 2004 25

2
  1                        Appearances
  2  
  3  Derry Millar      )             Commission Counsel
  4  Susan Vella        )
  5  Katherine Hensel  )
  6  Don Worme          )
  7  
  8  Murray Klippenstein )            The Estate of Dudley 
  9  Vilko Zbogar       )            George and George
 10  Andrew Okin        )            Family Group
 11  
 12  Peter Rosenthal  )              Aazhoodena and George
 13  Jackie Esmonde   )   (Np)       Family Group
 14  
 15  Anthony Ross     )              Residents of
 16  Kevin Scullion   )              Aazhoodena
 17                                   (Army Camp)
 18  
 19  William Henderson )              Kettle Point & Stony
 20  Jonathon George  )              Point First Nation
 21  
 22  Kim Twohig       )              Government of Ontario
 23  Walter Myrka     )
 24  Sue Freeborn     )   (Np)
 25

3
  1                   APPEARANCES (cont'd)
  2  
  3  Janet Clermont   )              Municipality of 
  4  David Nash       )   (Np)       Lambton Shores
  5  
  6  Peter Downard    )              The Honourable Michael
  7  Bill Hourigan    )   (Np)       Harris
  8  Jennifer McAleer )
  9  
 10  Nancy Spies      )   (Np)       Robert Runciman
 11  Alice Mrozek     )   (Np)
 12  
 13  Harvey Stosberg  )   (Np)       Charles Narnick
 14  Jacqueline Horvat )
 15  
 16  Douglas Sulman, Q.C. )           Marcel Beaubien
 17  Trevor Hinnegan     ) (Np)
 18  
 19  Mark Sandler       ) (Np)       Ontario Provincial 
 20  Andrea Tuck-Jackson )            Police
 21  
 22  Ian Roland       )              Ontario Provincial 
 23  Karen Jones      )   (Np)       Police Association &
 24                                   K. Deane
 25

4
  1                   APPEARANCES (cont'd)
  2  
  3  Julian Falconer  )              Aboriginal Legal 
  4  Brian Eyolfson   )              Services of Toronto
  5  
  6  Al J.C. O'Marra  )              Office of the Chief
  7                                   Coroner
  8  
  9  William Horton   )              Chiefs of Ontario
 10  Matthew Horner   )
 11  Kathleen Lickers )   (Np)
 12  
 13  Mark Frederick   )              Christopher Hodgson
 14  
 15  David Roebuck    )   (Np)       Debbie Hutton
 16  Anna Perschy     )   (Np)
 17  
 18  
 19  
 20  
 21  
 22  
 23  
 24  
 25

1 TABLE OF CONTENTS 2 PAGE NO. 3 Introduction 8 4 5 DARLENE JOHNSTON, Sworn 6 (VOIR DIRE COMMENCED) 7 Examination-in-chief by Mr. Derry Millar 19 8 (VOIR DIRE CONCLUDED 9 10 Examination-in-Chief by Mr. Derry Millar 42 11 12 Certificate of Transcript 222 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25

1 LIST OF EXHIBITS 2 EXHIBIT NO. DESCRIPTION PAGE NO. 3 P-1 The volume expert's brief which 4 contains Ms. Johnson's report 5 entitled 'Connecting People to 6 Place: Great Lakes Aboriginal 7 History in Cultural Context'. 8 At Tab 2 is a hard copy of the 9 PowerPoint presentation and in 10 the official copy it is in colour 11 and at Tab 3 is Ms. Johnson's CV. 47 12 13 P-2 Booklet of selected documents 14 that Professor Darlene 15 Johnston may refer to in the 16 course of her presentation 48 17 18 P-3 Electronic copy of PowerPoint 19 presentation of Professor Darlene 20 Johnston entitled "Connecting 21 People to Place: Aboriginal History 22 in Cultural Context" dated July 23 10, 2004 48 24 25

1 EXHIBITS (cont'd) 2 EXHIBIT NO. DESCRIPTION PAGE NO. 3 P-4 CD entitled "Volume 8: 4 Historical Research documents 5 July 2, 2004" containing 6 documents from Ms. Johnston 7 and Ms. Holmes 49 8 9 P-5 Large map referred to by 10 Professor Johnson 85 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25

1 --- Upon commencing at 10:30 a.m. 2 3 THE REGISTRAR: This Public Inquiry is 4 now in session. The Honourable Mr. Justice Linden 5 presiding. Please be seated. 6 MR. DERRY MILLAR: Morning, Commissioner. 7 COMMISSIONER SIDNEY LINDEN: Good 8 morning. I'm just going to wait a minute or two (2) to 9 give the media a chance to take some pictures and then 10 we're going to start. 11 The media are going to leave after a 12 minute or two. 13 14 (BRIEF PAUSE) 15 16 COMMISSIONER SIDNEY LINDEN: During the 17 Inquiry there won't be any cameras in the Hearing Room. 18 There will be one camera up there. 19 20 (BRIEF PAUSE) 21 22 As I said, there won't be any cameras in 23 the Hearing Room once we begin except for the one (1) 24 stationary camera that will be here all the time. 25 Okay, good morning to everyone. Most of

1 you know my name's Sidney Linden, I'm the Commissioner of 2 the Ipperwash Inquiry. 3 Welcome to what is being referred to as 4 Part I or the evidentiary part of this Inquiry at which 5 witnesses will be called and examined by Commission 6 Counsel and, if necessary, cross-examined by parties who 7 have been granted standing at the Inquiry. 8 This Inquiry was called to inquire into 9 and report on events surrounding the death of Dudley 10 George at Ipperwash Provincial Park in September 1995. 11 The Commission has also been asked to make 12 recommendations aimed at avoiding violence in similar 13 circumstances. 14 We began this Inquiry in April on standing 15 and, at that time, we had a respected Elder Lillian 16 Pitawatikwat conduct a traditional ceremony. 17 There will be two (2) parts to the 18 Inquiry. Part I will deal with the events surrounding 19 Mr. George's death and will be conducted in the typical 20 way of public hearings. 21 Part II will deal with policy issues which 22 are designed to help us develop recommendations to 23 preventing violence in similar circumstances in the 24 future and both parts will proceed concurrently. 25 Part II has already started with a

1 symposium on police and government relations held in June 2 in partnership with Osgoode Hall Law School. The 3 Commission's draft research plan for Part II of the 4 Inquiry is posted on our web site and parties are invited 5 to comment and to submit project proposals. 6 Seventeen (17) parties have been granted 7 standing for Part I of the Inquiry and twenty-eight (28) 8 for Part II. The official status of 'standing' entitles 9 the party to participate in the proceedings and to other 10 entitlements as set out in the rules of procedure and 11 practice. 12 The parties represent a variety of 13 perspectives on the events that are the subject of this 14 Inquiry as well as on subjects that the Commission views 15 as necessary to consider in order to fulfil its mandate. 16 The enquiries of Part I mandate are set 17 out in the Order in Council states that the Commission is 18 to enquire into and report on the events surrounding the 19 death of Dudley George. We hope to explore both the 20 specific circumstances of the shooting and the context in 21 which the shooting occurred. Both perspectives are keys 22 to the Inquiry's fact finding mandate. 23 In doing so, my hope is that the Inquiry 24 will contribute to the public's understanding of both the 25 specific incident and the factors and conditions that

1 contributed to it. 2 Public education and understanding are key 3 features of this, and indeed of -- of most, public 4 inquiries. Education and understanding are particularly 5 important because they can contribute to healing and to 6 moving forward for those who's lives were affected by the 7 events of September 1995. 8 In this respect I am mindful of the fact 9 that we visited the events that took place almost nine 10 (9) years ago may re-open wounds and re-kindle feelings 11 and tensions. 12 The establishment of the Inquiry may also 13 raise unrealistic expectations about what can be achieved 14 through the inquiry process. It's challenging for any 15 public inquiry to define its scope given the many issues 16 an investigation of this kind can raise. 17 This is particularly true for inquiries 18 such as the Ipperwash Inquiry that our mandate is to go 19 beyond mere fact finding. A Commission must necessarily 20 find a balance between being too broad on the one hand, 21 too focused on the other, in its investigation of facts 22 and mitigating circumstances. 23 Please be assured my goal is to address 24 these issues and challenges completely, thoughtfully, 25 openly and fairly. We will begin shortly, but first I

1 want to comment on two (2) matters regarding these 2 hearings. 3 First has to do with substance and the 4 second with location. The hearing days in July and 5 August will be dedicated to the extent possible to 6 providing a common, historical background; a starting 7 point for the parties and for all who will be following 8 the Inquiry. 9 In keeping with the Commission's goal of 10 establishing the context and contributing to public 11 education we have engaged two (2) experts to map out the 12 long and complex sequence of historical facts and 13 occurrences involved in the aboriginal peoples of this 14 area. The breadth and scope of this overview is 15 deliberate. 16 We believe that an understanding by 17 Ontarians of aboriginal history of the region and the 18 historical context of the incident is fundamental to the 19 inquiry and to our educational mandate. 20 Our goal is to be comprehensive and fair. 21 Having said that, we certainly understand that history is 22 subject to interpretation and debate and in that regard, 23 the experts that we will be calling as witnesses are 24 subject to cross-examination by Counsel for the parties. 25 The second matter is that of the location

1 of these hearings. At the hearings on standing I 2 indicated that the Commission was considering a variety 3 of factors in making the decision regarding the location 4 for the hearings and I encouraged any party with views on 5 this question to share them with the Commission. 6 A few parties have expressed their 7 preference. I've determined that Forest should be the 8 primary location for these hearings, based on the 9 principle that an inquiry of this kind should be held in 10 the location where a substantial part of the events in 11 question occurred. 12 In my view, physical proximity heightens 13 ones awareness of and appreciation for the events in 14 question. It also better ensures that the inquiry is 15 readily accessible to a majority of those who were most 16 affected by those events. 17 Nonetheless, I intend to continue to 18 evaluate the matter of location as we proceed. Currently 19 we are scheduled to be in this location until early 20 March. Information about the Inquiry schedule and events 21 can be found at our website, www.ipperwashinquiry.ca. 22 Now, before calling on Mr. Derry Millar, 23 who is our Lead Counsel, I would like to formally 24 introduce some other Members of the Commission Team, some 25 of whom I did introduce at the Standing Hearings in

1 April. Mr. Millar is well known to most of you, he is 2 the Commission's Lead Counsel, he comes to this Inquiry 3 from Weir Foulds, where he is a senior litigation 4 partner. 5 Susan Vella is Commission Counsel and she 6 is a partner in the law firm of Goodman and Carr. Don 7 Worme has just recently joined the Inquiry Team; he's 8 been engaged in private practise. Among other things, he 9 was Lead Counsel for the family of Neil Stonechild in 10 that Public Inquiry in Saskatchewan. 11 Katherine Hensel is the Commission's 12 Assistant Counsel; Katherine practises law with a 13 litigation group, at the law firm of McCarthy Tetrault. 14 Peter Rehak, who is found by the back, is the Media 15 Relations Advisor, and Nye Thomas -- Nye, are you in the 16 room? Nye Thomas is the -- is our Director of Policy and 17 Research, and he's responsible for managing Part II of 18 the Inquiry. 19 More detailed biographical information is 20 available for everyone on our website. I'm now going to 21 call Mr. Derry Millar. 22 MR. DERRY MILLAR: Thank you very much, 23 Commissioner. If I might, at the beginning, I would like 24 to take a moment and introduce the counsel for the 25 parties who are at the counsel table, starting at my

1 immediate -- on my immediate right is Mr. Murray 2 Klippenstein, who appears for the Estate of Dudley George 3 and George Family Group. And beside Mr. Klippenstein 4 today, is Mr. Maynard Sam George. 5 Next is Mr. Peter Rosenthal, who appears 6 on behalf of Aazhoodena and George Family Group. Beside 7 Peter is Kim Twohig, from the Government of Ontario. 8 Beside Ms. Twohig is Mr. Mark Sandler, who appears on 9 behalf of the Ontario Provincial Police. 10 In the second row, starting on right 11 behind me, is Mr. Bill Henderson, who appears on behalf 12 of the Kettle and Stoney Point First Nation. Beside Mr. 13 Henderson is Mr. Tony Ross, who appears on behalf of the 14 residents of Aazhoodena. Next to Mr. Ross is Ms. 15 Jacqueline Horvat, who appears on behalf of Mr. Charles 16 Harnick. 17 Next is Mr. Peter Downard, who appears on 18 behalf of The Honourable Michael Harris. Next to Mr. 19 Downard is Mr. Ian Roland, who appears on behalf of the 20 Ontario Provincial Police Association. 21 And in the back row, we have Mr. Douglas 22 Sulman, who appears on behalf of Mr. Marcel Beaubien. 23 Next to Mr. Sulman is Mr. Al O'Marra, who appears on 24 behalf of the Office of the Chief Coroner. 25 Then we have Mr. Julien Faulkner, who

1 appears on behalf of the Aboriginal Legal Services of 2 Toronto, then Mr. Bill Henderson, who appears on behalf 3 of the -- I mean, excuse me, Mr. Bill Horton, who appears 4 on behalf of the Chiefs from Ontario, then Ms. Janet 5 Claremont, "C-L-A-R-E-M-O-N-T", who appears on behalf of 6 the Municipality of Lambton Shores, and then Mr. Mark 7 Fredrick, who appears on behalf of Mr. Christopher 8 Hodgson. And the last person beside Mr. Fredrick is Ms. 9 Jennifer McAleer, who is with Mr. Downard. 10 There is no one here today for Ms. Hutton 11 or Mr. Runciman. 12 The outset, Commissioner, I would like to 13 welcome the members of the public who are present today, 14 the representatives of the parties, and the 15 representatives of the media. 16 I would like to bring to the public's 17 attention the fact that the Inquiry has a web site at 18 ipperwashinquiry.ca. We will be posting on the web site 19 the transcripts of the Hearing on a daily basis. Today's 20 transcript will be available by link from our website 21 sometime after 7:00 p.m. 22 The website also sets out the schedule of 23 hearing days and it will set out the name of witnesses 24 when determined. The website will also contain the 25 expert's reports once entered as exhibits and presently

1 there's posted on the web site the policy papers from the 2 symposium held on June 29th on the relationship between 3 the executive branch of government and the police. 4 As you've commented in your opening, the 5 events of September 6th, 1995 did not just happen. These 6 events arose based on a historical context. We intend to 7 call evidence during the next three (3) days and the 8 three (3) days in August, August 17th, eighteen (18) and 9 nineteen (19), on the historical context. 10 The -- before I move on, just as a 11 practical matter, today we're going to sit from 10:30 to 12 1:00. At one o'clock we will break until 2:15 for lunch, 13 then sit until 5:00 p.m. Tomorrow and Thursday we will 14 start at 10:00 a.m. in the morning and sit until 1:00 and 15 then 2:15 to 5:00. 16 In September we're going to begin with the 17 witnesses from the aboriginal community and we will 18 proceed in September and through the fall. 19 We're going to hear two (2) witnesses this 20 week, the first is Professor Darlene Johnston. She's 21 from the University of Toronto Law School. Professor 22 Johnston is a legally trained historian with an expertise 23 in Great Lakes aboriginal history and traditions. 24 And our second witness is Ms. Jone Holmes, 25 President of Jone Holmes and Associates Inc. Ms. Holmes

1 is an expert in aboriginal rights and government, 2 aboriginal relations and ethno-history. 3 Before I begin, for the benefit of 4 counsel, we have put on the counsel table some additional 5 documents. The first document is a list of names which 6 entitled 'Great Lakes Algonquian Speaking People' and 7 there is a -- that is really an appendix to the report of 8 Ms. Johnston and in the official copy it is right after 9 page 32. 10 We have also added to the documents that 11 we gave you notice of, two (2) documents. The first is, 12 it's a letter from William Jones dated December 8th, 1840 13 and the second is a petition signature page and it's the 14 second of the two (2) documents that I left on your desk. 15 Well, we have provided counsel, 16 Commissioner, with a copy -- another copy of the 17 PowerPoint presentation that will be used by Ms. 18 Johnston. So, if I might, I'd like to call Ms. Darlene 19 Johnston. 20 COMMISSIONER SIDNEY LINDEN: Thank you 21 very much, Mr. Millar. 22 23 DARLENE MARY JOHNSTON; Sworn, 24 25 MR. DERRY MILLAR: Commissioner, just for

1 your ease of reference I've put -- placed in front of you 2 a volume entitled 'Expert's Brief'; that contains at Tab 3 3, Ms. Johnston's CV that I'll be referring to. I've 4 also provided you with a book of documents and I'll 5 address those shortly. 6 But I wanted to draw that to your 7 attention. The CV is there for your assistance. 8 COMMISSIONER SIDNEY LINDEN: Thank you. 9 10 EXAMINATION-IN-CHIEF BY MR. DERRY MILLAR: 11 12 (VOIR DIRE COMMENCED) 13 14 Q: Ms. Johnston, I understand that you 15 obtained a BA Honours in History from Queen's University 16 in 1983? 17 A: Yes. 18 Q: And you obtained an LLB from the 19 University of Toronto Faculty of Law in 1986? 20 A: Yes. 21 Q: And thereafter you articled with the 22 Federal Department of Justice in Saskatchewan? 23 A: Yes. 24 Q: And you were called to the Bar of 25 Saskatchewan in 1987?

1 A: Yes. 2 Q: And I understand that you are not a 3 member of the Bar right now? 4 A: No. 5 Q: And then in 2003 you obtained a LLM 6 from the University of Toronto Faculty of Law; and is 7 that correct? 8 A: Yes. 9 Q: And can you tell us what your thesis 10 was about? 11 A: My thes -- my thesis is entitled 12 'Litigating Identity - The Challenge of Aboriginality'. 13 And what I considered was the problem that the tests, 14 evidentiary tests, which the courts have framed in the 15 context of aboriginal rights in title litigation, the 16 problems and challenges those tests create for aboriginal 17 people because our history is not as well documented from 18 an archival point of view. 19 And I was interested in developing a 20 method which would combine, not only the archival 21 records, but also oral traditional and symbolic literacy; 22 the writing system's not alphabetic but the -- the -- the 23 communication systems used by aboriginal people, in 24 particular the aboriginal people of the Great Lakes. 25 And so, I set out the tests and then I

1 took as a case study my home community which is a the 2 Chippewas of Nawash First Nation on Georgian Bay and 3 worked with the oral tradition that I'd received from my 4 grandmother and triangulated that with the archival 5 record in a way to show that there is continuity between 6 the present day people in the aboriginal communities 7 around the Great Lakes and our ancestors in the pre- 8 contact period which is what, unfortunately, the courts 9 require under Section 35. 10 Q: Thank you. And I understand that 11 you're presently the -- an assistant professor and 12 aboriginal student advisor at the University of Toronto 13 Faculty of Law? 14 A: Yes. 15 Q: And you began there in 2002? 16 A: Yes. 17 Q: And what courses have you -- are you 18 presently teaching at the University of Toronto? 19 A: I've been teaching a property law 20 course which is a first year mandatory course as well as 21 an upper year course on aboriginal peoples and Canadian 22 law. And I've also put together materials for a seminar 23 on the comparative law of the Great Lakes in the early 24 encounter period. 25 Q: Thank you. And I understand that in

1 -- you joined the faculty of the University of Toronto 2 Law School in 2001? 3 A: Yes, as an Adjunct Professor and 4 that's when I offered the course on the comparative law 5 of the Great Lakes. 6 Q: Okay. And between 1992 and 2001 you 7 were the -- a land claims research coordinator for the 8 Chippewas -- Chippewas of Nawash and Saugeen First 9 Nations; is that correct? 10 A: Yes, yes. 11 Q: And can you tell us what you did in 12 that capacity? 13 A: I first started working for my 14 community in 1991. I was, at that point, teaching at the 15 University of Ottawa and my community and sister 16 community at Saugine was involved in a fishing rights 17 dispute which ended up going to court and I was the 18 research coordinator to prepare the evidence that would 19 be required to meet the test for Section 35 of the 20 Constitution Act and the Sparrow case which had just been 21 released by the Supreme Court of Canada in 1990. 22 After we had completed the research for 23 the fishing case and were successful, then I was 24 entreated by the community to start working on land 25 claims which had been somewhat stagnant for a decade and

1 a half since I'd worked there as a university student. 2 And so I spent the first year reviewing 3 the state of our research. We retained a firm in 4 Toronto, had them do an assessment of the claims and 5 decide which would be the most fruitful claim to -- to 6 start with. 7 And we filed a major land claim in the 8 courts of Ontario in 1994 and from that time until 2001, 9 I was engaged in -- in the research co-ordination, again 10 understanding the legal tests that are important for 11 proving aboriginal title and issues around fiduciary 12 duty, but making sure that the documentary record from -- 13 of archival material was available. 14 So, I did primarily documentary research 15 in those ten (10) years. 16 Q: And I understand as well that 17 starting from 1989 to 1992 you were an Assistant 18 Professor, Common law section Faculty of Law at the 19 University of Ottawa? 20 A: Yes, that's right. 21 Q: And what did you teach in Ottawa? 22 A: In Ottawa I taught property law and 23 legal writing. But I took a series of leaves from that 24 tenure stream position to do the work at home and 25 ultimately resigned that position to -- to stay at home

1 for the decade that I did. 2 Q: Thank you. Then I understand, as 3 well, that, listed on your CV, you've received a number 4 of research grants from various organizations to assist 5 you in your research; is that correct? 6 A: Yes. 7 Q: And you've also written a text, 'The 8 Taking of Indian Lands in Canada: Consent or Coercion' 9 That was published by the University of Saskatchewan 10 Native Law Centre in 1989. Is that correct? 11 A: Yes. 12 Q: And you've written a number of 13 articles, and I'm referring, Commissioner, to page 2, the 14 -- the articles are -- an article, 'The Cult of 15 Eurocentrism and the Evolution of the Ontario 16 Archeological Myths'. That's forthcoming in the Ontario 17 Archaeological Journal, is that correct? 18 A: Yes. 19 Q: And you've written an article, 20 'Native Rights: Is Collective Rights a Question of Group 21 Self Preservation?'. That was published in 1989 in the 22 Canadian Journal of Law and Jurisprudence? 23 A: Yes. 24 Q: And you've written an article, 'A 25 Theory of Crown Trust towards Aboriginal Peoples'. That

1 was published in 1986 in the Ottawa Law Review; is that 2 correct? 3 A: Yes. 4 Q: And again the -- an article, 'The 5 Quest of the Six (6) Nations for self-determination'; 6 that was published in 1986 in the University of Toronto 7 Faculty of Law Review? 8 A: Yes. 9 Q: And were some of these articles or 10 all of these articles peer reviewed? 11 A: Yes, most of them were. 12 Q: And what does 'peer reviewed' mean? 13 A: When they're submitted to an academic 14 journal, if the editors decide that they're interested in 15 publishing it, they will circulate it usually to three 16 (3) recognized experts in the field and ask for them to 17 provide a review to ensure that the article is well- 18 researched, well-written, timely and makes a contribution 19 to the literature. 20 And if the positive -- if the reviews are 21 positive, then they -- then the journal go ahead and 22 publish. 23 Q: Thank you. And if I could take you 24 to page 3 of your CV: You've contributed four (4) 25 chapters to books; is that correct?

1 A: Yes. 2 Q: The first, 'Lo, How Sparrow Has 3 Fallen' which is to be published this year in access to 4 the justice -- the University of British Columbia Press? 5 A: Yes. 6 Q: And what is that about? 7 A: That is a paper that I presented at a 8 conference last year that was sponsored by the Law 9 Society of Upper Canada. I was invited to participate in 10 that conference and I was asked to do a retrospective of 11 the Supreme Court's jurisprudence over the past decade 12 and a half since Sparrow under Section 35 by the 13 Constitution which recognizes and affirms Aboriginal and 14 Treaty rights. 15 Q: And that is what Section 35 is and -- 16 A: Yes. 17 Q: It recog -- recognizes Aboriginal and 18 Treaty -- Rights and Treaty Rights? 19 A: Yes. 20 Q: Then the second book -- chapter you 21 contributed was 'When a Sacred Site might not be 22 considered sacred: The Case of Hunter's Point, Georgian 23 Bay, Ontario' and that was a -- part of a text or -- 24 published by the University of Alberta in 1998; is that 25 correct?

1 A: Yes. 2 Q: And can you tell us briefly what that 3 was about? 4 A: Again, it was a paper I was invited 5 to deliver at a conference on Sacred Lands which was held 6 in Winnipeg and I co-authored it with an archaeologist 7 who's worked in my territory. 8 We have a site just opposite our reserve 9 across the bay, today it's known as Hope Bay. Our people 10 know it as Nochemowaning which means 'place of healing'. 11 Burials have been disturbed there and the 12 archaeological assessment revealed not only burials but 13 areas of intense ritual activity. 14 And both myself and Dr. Fitzgerald and our 15 community struggled for -- and are continuing to struggle 16 to protect that site and so we wrote that paper to 17 demonstrate some of the difficulties encountered in using 18 the Ontario Cemeteries legislation to protect sites. 19 Q: Okay. And then you contributed a 20 chapter entitled 'Aboriginal Rights and the Constitution: 21 A story within a story'. And that was published in 22 'Canadian Constitutional Dilemmas Revisited', Queen's 23 University Press 1997; is that correct? 24 A: Yes. 25 Q: And what was that about?

1 A: Again, it was a conference where I 2 was invited to pre -- present a paper and it was shortly 3 after we had won our fishing rights case, the case of 4 Jones and Nadjiwon. And in that case were successful in 5 extending the Sparrow analysis to protect commercial 6 aboriginal fishing rights under Section 35 of the 7 Constitution. 8 So the paper considered both the Sparrow 9 Test and then the particular case which which -- with 10 which I had been involved in, the challenges of 11 litigation in a criminal context under Section 35. 12 Q: Okay. And the last chapter is 13 entitled 'First Nations and Canadian Citizenship'. And 14 that was in a text edited by Mr. Kaplan entitled 15 'Belonging: The Meaning and Future of Canadian 16 Citizenship' and that was published by McGill Queen's 17 University Press in 1993? 18 A: Yes. 19 Q: And what was that about? 20 A: Again, I was invited -- William 21 Kaplan was a colleague of mine when I was teaching at the 22 University of Ottawa and he had organized a conference on 23 citizenship and asked me to present a paper from the 24 perspective of First Nations experience with the Canadian 25 state and the Canadian process of citizenship.

1 And so I presented a paper, again, with a 2 primarily historical perspective looking at the 3 ambivalence which First Nations, in some cases -- in many 4 cases, feel towards the concept of Canadian citizenship 5 because, historically, our people were required to give 6 up our -- our aboriginal identity, our -- our status and 7 treaty rights in order to be able to vote. 8 It was a process known as enfranchisement. 9 And so one -- one couldn't be considered a citizen or 10 vote in Canadian elections without giving up status. We 11 didn't -- aboriginal people in Canada didn't receive the 12 Federal franchise, the ability to vote in Federal 13 elections, until 1960. 14 And the enfranchisement provisions, in 15 fact, stayed in the Indian Act until 1985. So, the idea 16 of citizenship as it's been practised by the Canadian 17 Government is -- is, in fact, a fairly conflicted one for 18 aboriginal people. 19 Q: Okay. And I understand from your CV 20 that you have currently three (3) works in progress. The 21 first 'Litigating Identity: The Challenge of 22 Aboriginality' and, as I understand it, that is, you're 23 turning your LLM thesis into a book? 24 A: I hope to, yes. 25 Q: And that is to be published by the

1 University of Toronto Press? 2 A: I plan to submit the manuscript. I 3 don't have any commitments yet. 4 Q: And you're working on a paper, 5 'Aboriginal Traditions of Forgiveness' and it's to be 6 presented to the International Conference Mending the 7 Past Memory and the Politics of Forgiveness sponsored by 8 the Canadian Commission on UNESCO and UQAM. Can you tell 9 us what UQAM is? 10 A: University du Quebec a Montreal. The 11 University of Quebec at Montreal. 12 Q: And that is to -- you're going to 13 present that paper this fall? 14 A: In October, yes. 15 Q: And as well, a paper that's in 16 progress is 'Recovering Aboriginal Traditions' which is 17 being prepared for submission to the Indigenous Stream 18 for International Law and Society Conference the 19 University of Newcastle, Australia which is scheduled for 20 December 2004? 21 A: Yes. 22 Q: And what is that about? 23 A: With -- building on the -- the 24 research I did for my Masters of Law thesis, I'm using 25 early historical linguistics, that is dictionaries that

1 were made by the first missionaries, to try to isolate 2 expressions and phrases which speak to legal notions 3 because there is a commonly held belief that before 4 contact aboriginal people didn't have a system of law. 5 And the challenge is to show that these 6 notions of justice and right and promise keeping and 7 compensation are, in fact, deeply embedded in the early 8 vocabulary and go back to pre-contact times. 9 Q: Thank you. And I understand, as 10 well, that you have made submissions to the Standing 11 Committee on Aboriginal Affairs at the House of Commons 12 in Ottawa, in both 19 -- in 1991 and 1989? 13 A: Yes. 14 Q: And, if I could take you to page six 15 (6) of your CV, you've prepared, as -- along with 16 Professor Austin, a -- the course material for property 17 law at the University of Toronto Law School? 18 A: Yes. 19 Q: And, what does that course cover? 20 A: Property law is one of the five (5) 21 mandatory courses in the first year at our law school, 22 and historically, the curriculum, in particularly with 23 property law, has been exclusively based on the English 24 common-law tradition. 25 And we, as new faculty, and myself as an

1 aboriginal professor, wanted to expand the curriculum to 2 include aboriginal notions of property, and to show that, 3 in fact, property is influenced by culture and history 4 and tradition. 5 And, so we redesigned the materials fairly 6 fundamentally, starting with notions of sovereignty, and 7 looking at Aboriginal understandings of property, and how 8 those were encountered by the Europeans who came first, 9 the French and then the British, and the extent to which 10 Canadian law has been able to reconcile those traditions. 11 Q: And that -- those materials are being 12 used today at the University of Toronto? 13 A: Yes, they are. 14 Q: And, as well, you redesigned the 15 course and created new materials for, of course, 16 Aboriginal People in Canadian Law; is that correct? 17 A: Yes. 18 Q: And, can you tell us what you did 19 with respect to that course? 20 A: Again, I developed new materials. 21 The course has historically been called Aboriginal Law, 22 and I -- I've changed the title, because, in fact, what 23 the course looks at and it is intended to look at, is the 24 Canadian jurisprudence that applies to aboriginal people, 25 and it's not in -- in any sense, aboriginal law.

1 So, in my materials, I started with 2 grounding the students in the constitutional history of 3 relations between First Nations and the Canadian state, 4 as a backdrop for then assessing the jurisprudence of the 5 Court. 6 So, we begin with origin stories and the 7 first accounts of treaty relationships, going back, and 8 even before the -- the British regime, which began in 9 1760. 10 Q: And you, as well, designed a course, 11 Property Law in its Cultural and Historical Canadian 12 Context, in 2002? 13 A: Yes. 14 Q: Is that correct? 15 A: Yes. 16 Q: And can you tell us a little bit 17 about that? 18 A: That was the first year I was 19 teaching property law and I developed my own materials. 20 Professor Austin was on -- on maternity leave that year, 21 and so I was on my own. And I was very ambitious with 22 respect to the primary source materials that I used, and 23 that is archival documents, and met with some resistance 24 from the students, because it was such a contrast with 25 what other professors were teaching in property.

1 And so, we -- I offered that for one (1) 2 year, but then Professor Austin and I worked up the 3 second set of materials. 4 Q: So, the property law that was 5 designed for 2003, 2004, has subsumed the work that you 6 did. 7 A: Yes, it has. 8 Q: And, lastly, you created a course -- 9 you designed a course and created the materials for a 10 course, Comparative Law of the Great Lakes in the Early 11 Encounter Period, and that was then, in 2003; is that 12 correct? 13 A: Yes. 14 Q: And, can you just explain the bit 15 about that -- that course and the materials. 16 A: That was an upper year seminar and, 17 again, I was anxious to show the students that law did 18 exist in North America, particularly in the Great Lakes, 19 which is the region that I'm familiar with, before the 20 advent of Europeans. 21 And I wanted not just to show the archival 22 record of the aboriginal tradition, but also to compare 23 it with the traditions that came from France and England, 24 and to show the students that some values and traditions 25 which we take for granted now as Canadians, in fact have

1 their roots in the aboriginal tradition; that notions of 2 autonomy, of democracy, of consensus building, of 3 compensation, alternative dispute resolution, that those 4 in fact are all traditions which predate the arrival of 5 Europeans in the Great Lakes region. 6 Q: Thank you. And at pages 4 and 5 of 7 your CV, you list eighteen (18) presentations. These 8 conference presentations; I take it that these are papers 9 that you've presented at the conferences listed in your 10 CV? 11 A: Yes. 12 Q: And I'm not going to go through all 13 of them, but the first one is entitled, 'Anishnaabeg 14 Totemic Identity and Landscape'. And that was presented 15 at York University in February of 2004. 16 Can you tell us what that was about? 17 A: At York University there's a masters 18 program in environmental studies; and I was invited by a 19 coalition, including the people in environmental studies, 20 to speak in a speaker's series they had on indigenous 21 leadership. 22 And some of the work that I did for my 23 thesis looked at the connection between territory and 24 totemic identify and governance; that is who was entitled 25 to govern. Whether the system was hereditary or elected.

1 In fact it's quite a nuanced idea. 2 But -- so because they were interested in 3 leadership and in the environment, I presented my work by 4 grounding totemic identity in particular landscape and 5 showing how governance decisions were made as a result of 6 that system. 7 Q: And can you tell us what you -- what 8 you mean by totemic identity? 9 A: Aboriginal cultures in North America, 10 well at least in Eastern North America, are based on a 11 kinship system which is also known as a totemic system or 12 a clan system. And for the Great Lakes people who speak 13 Anishnaabemwin; Algonquian speaking peoples. Our totemic 14 system is -- is patrilineal, that is, children are -- 15 when they're born, they're born into the clan of their 16 father or the dodaim of their father. 17 So, for instance, my father's father is 18 Potawatomi and he's Marten clan. My father's mother is 19 Otter dodaim. So when my father was born he's the son of 20 an Otter and a Marten, but he's a Marten. 21 And then because I'm my father's daughter, 22 I'm also a Marten. So, when you speak to a person's 23 totemic identity, it's how you trace the identity of your 24 clan back generations through the patriline. 25 Q: Thank you. And by the reference to

1 landscape; what do you mean? 2 A: I wanted to get beyond the notion of 3 just physical geography. I understand landscape is a way 4 of articulating how humans see or perceive or experience 5 the physical world around them. It's not just a physical 6 world for aboriginal people, it's also a spiritual world. 7 And totemic identity also has a very 8 strong, in my experience, a very strong spiritual 9 component. 10 Q: Okay. And the second paper that you 11 list is 'Totemic Identity in Governments' and that was 12 presented the American Society for Legal History Annual 13 Meeting, held in Washington, DC, in November 14, 2003; is 14 that correct? 15 A: Yes. 16 Q: And what was that paper about? 17 A: Again, I'm exploring the notion of 18 chieftainship and there has been some literature 19 suggesting it's a post-contact phenomenon, but my work 20 with both oral tradition and historical linguistics 21 suggests that's, in fact, a very deeply embedded concept. 22 And I did work with the very earliest dictionaries that 23 show that the word for chief in our language, Ogima, in 24 fact, is part of a prot-vocabulary. It -- it's one of 25 the oldest words in our language suggesting then, that

1 the institution of chieftainship is also a very ancient 2 concept. 3 Q: Okay. And you -- there's a -- you 4 list a paper 'Champlain and the Contact Clock' that was 5 presented to the Renaissance Society of America 6 conference workshop entitled Champlain and his World in 7 March 2003. 8 Can you explain what that paper was about? 9 A: Yes. I was looking at the Court 10 Section 35 Jurisprudence for Aboriginal Rights, as 11 opposed to aboriginal title. It's complicated, they have 12 different tests and different time-frames, depending on 13 whether you're talking about an aboriginal right or an 14 aboriginal title. 15 And the Aboriginal Right Test which comes 16 from the Van der Peet Decision of the Supreme Court in 17 1996 says that for a right to be recognized and affirmed 18 as an Aboriginal Right, it has to have been central and 19 integral to the distinctive culture of the people pre- 20 contact. 21 And so this raises the whole question, 22 well, what is contact and can contact be a point in time? 23 And why is that only what was central and integral at 24 this moment of contact is what gets recognized and 25 affirmed?

1 So I was trying to problematize the whole 2 approach of the Court to dividing the world, the 3 universe, aboriginal history into pre-contact and post- 4 contact and to suggest that contact, in fact, is more of 5 a process as opposed to one (1) episode in time. 6 Q: Thank you. And the last paper that 7 I'm going to ask you about is 'Reading Yellowhead's 8 Wampum. It was a presentation to the 1850 Robinson Huron 9 Treaty Nations gather -- gathering sponsored by 10 Batchewana and Garden River First Nations in October 11 2002? 12 A: Yes. 13 Q: And can you tell us what that paper 14 related to? 15 A: The meeting was convened to celebrate 16 the return of a wampum belt to the community. Wampum is 17 a -- any type of shell that comes from the Atlantic 18 Seaboard. The shell is white on the outside and towards 19 the inside has purple and people used to work these 20 shells into beads. 21 The beads would be drilled and then they 22 could be strung on hide and actually was have some 23 replica wampum belts here on the table. But this meeting 24 at Garden River was to celebrate the repatriation of a 25 historic wampum belt that had been sent from their

1 community to British officials that ended up in private 2 hands and was put up for auction and the community had 3 repurchased it. 4 And they were celebrating the return of a 5 particular belt with a particular history. And what I 6 contributed to the meeting was to read a speech of a 7 Chief from 1840, Chief Yellowhead, reading a wampum belt. 8 And the belt that he read has not 9 survived, but the speech has and it's very important in 10 terms of explaining the relationship of the peoples -- 11 Chippewas peoples around the Great Lakes and their 12 relationship with the Iroquoian speaking peoples to the 13 south of the Great Lakes. 14 MR. DERRY MILLAR: Thank you. 15 Commissioner, I'd like to tender Professor Johnson as a - 16 - an expert in Great Lakes aboriginal history and 17 traditions and subject to any questions that My Friends 18 may have. 19 COMMISSIONER SIDNEY LINDEN: Thank you 20 very much. 21 Does anybody have any questions of 22 Professor Johnston? I believe there's a question out 23 there. Apparently those mics have a very short span. 24 MS. KIM TWOHIG: Your Honour, my name is 25 Kim Twohig and I represent the Province of Ontario.

1 The Province does not object to the 2 testimony of Ms. Johnston or the admissibility of the 3 reports at this Inquiry -- of her reports, specifically, 4 on the understanding that the purpose of this evidence is 5 to provide an overview of the history of aboriginal 6 peoples in southwestern Ontario in order to inform the 7 issues at the Inquiry. 8 However, I should point out that the 9 reports rely on facts and contain some opinions that are 10 contentious in various pieces of ongoing litigation. We 11 appreciate that the issues are different in the 12 litigation and the purpose of the historical evidence 13 will be different at this Inquiry. 14 We simply wish to put on record that the 15 Province of Ontario wishes to reserve its right to 16 challenge in the other litigation the expertise of Ms. 17 Johnston and the facts and opinions set out in her 18 report. 19 MR. DERRY MILLAR: Thank you very much 20 for that observation. You don't have any objection to 21 her being characterized as an expert witness for this 22 Inquiry? 23 MS. KIM TWOHIG: Not for purposes of the 24 Inquiry, no. Thank you. 25 COMMISSIONER SIDNEY LINDEN: Thank you

1 very much. Does anybody else have any observations or 2 questions? 3 MR. DERRY MILLAR: It might be -- 4 Commissioner, if I might, before we begin, in terms of 5 counsel who wish to make comments at any time, perhaps 6 they could rise and we could recognize them and then they 7 could use this microphone because these other microphones 8 will pick up someone if they're speaking into it if it's 9 turned on sitting at their seat, but it probably would be 10 better if everyone came to the -- came to the podium. 11 COMMISSIONER SIDNEY LINDEN: Thank you 12 very much. Then I have no difficulty characterizing or 13 finding Professor Johnston as an expert in Great Lakes 14 aboriginal history and traditions. Thank you. 15 MR. DERRY MILLAR: Thank you. 16 17 (VOIR DIRE CONCLUDED) 18 19 EXAMINATION-IN-CHIEF BY MR. DERRY MILLAR: 20 Q: Ms. Johnston, what were you asked to 21 do? 22 A: I was asked to provide an aboriginal, 23 historical, cultural perspective on the attachment that 24 aboriginal people, that I'm familiar with, the aboriginal 25 people of the Great Lakes, feel towards their lands and

1 their burials and how I've seen that demonstrated in the 2 historic record. 3 I was asked to pay particular attention to 4 southwestern Ontario, to the southern shores of Lake 5 Huron and the Lake St. Clair region and to look for 6 evidence that connected the modern day community of 7 Kettle and Stoney Point to the early encounter period 8 and the early treaty period. 9 Q: And by -- by encounter period you 10 mean that period when Europeans first came to North 11 America? 12 A: Yes. When I speak of the encounter 13 period, there's two (2) broad periods that we have to 14 keep in mind. One (1) is when the French first came into 15 the Great Lakes region. They -- their presence in the 16 region was much earlier than the British. 17 And so the French encounter period for the 18 Great Lakes begins in about 1615 and goes through to 19 about 1760 and then the British presence and regime which 20 is then succeeded by the Canadian and American starts in 21 1760. 22 Q: And how did you go about doing your 23 work? In other words, what methodology did you follow? 24 A: I followed the methodology that I had 25 developed in my master's research which was to take a

1 geographic area, in my master's thesis, of course, I was 2 looking at Georgian Bay and my -- my father's and 3 grandparents' territory, to take a particular region and 4 to look in the very earliest encounter period to the 5 records that are available, such as the records of Samuel 6 de Champlain and the records made by the Jesuit 7 missionaries that -- which were published annually in 8 documents known as 'The Relations'. 9 Also some colonial archive records which 10 I'm -- with which I'm familiar as a result of my 11 research. And then when I finished with the French 12 period, to look at the transition period between the 13 French and British regimes, which is in the 1760's and 14 then to move into the British record-keeping, and 15 primarily the records of the Indian Department, which is 16 now the -- the Department of Indian Affairs. 17 And those records are known as 'Record 18 Group 10', 'RG-10' at the National Archives and -- and 19 many of those records have been microfilmed and there are 20 copies of those microfilms at the Ontario Archives. 21 So, I went to the Ontario Archives, after 22 I'd done as much research as I could for my previous 23 work. I went to the Ontario Archives and specifically 24 went through RG-10 volume by volume, beginning at Volume 25 I through to Volume 77 and then jumped ahead because of

1 the way things are organized in those intervening volumes 2 have to do with not -- not with -- with the Great Lakes 3 region. Then Volumes 140 to 150 and then some other 4 selected volumes that I looked at, so, I looked at almost 5 a hundred (100) reels of microfilm, including the Claus 6 Papers. 7 Claus was a -- a Colonel in the Indian 8 Department and he was very active in the region and 9 involved in some of the treaties which are of interest. 10 So, I went through eleven (11) volumes of the Klaus 11 papers and almost a hundred (100) volumes of RG-10. 12 Q: And Claus is spelled C-L-A-U-S? 13 A: Yes. 14 Q: And he -- his work was done in what 15 period of time? 16 A: Colonel Claus was in the Indian 17 Department before the American war of Independence. He 18 became Deputy Superintendent of the Indian Department in 19 1800 and that's a post he held until 1826. So, he was 20 basically second in command of the Indian Department in 21 the Great Lakes -- the southern Great Lakes region from 22 1800 to 1826. 23 Q: And was he based in Canada or in 24 Great Britain? 25 A: He was based in Canada. He was based

1 near Brantford. 2 Q: Thank you. 3 A: But he travelled extensively 4 throughout the region. 5 Q: And you prepared a report? 6 A: Yes. 7 Q: And you also prepared a PowerPoint 8 presentation? 9 A: Yes. 10 MR. DERRY MILLAR: And, Commissioner, if 11 I might I would like to tender and ask to have it marked 12 as Exhibit P-1. The volume experts brief which contains 13 Ms. Johnson's report entitled 'Connecting People to 14 Place: Great Lakes Aboriginal History in Cultural 15 Context'. 16 At Tab 2 is a hard copy of the PowerPoint 17 presentation and in the official copy it is in colour and 18 at Tab 3 is Ms. Johnson's CV and if that might be marked 19 Exhibit P-1? 20 COMMISSIONER SIDNEY LINDEN: Thank you 21 very much. Are you going -- going to mark that copy? 22 MR. DERRY MILLAR: I've provided the 23 Registrar with a copy of this material. 24 25

1 --- EXHIBIT NO. P-1: The volume expert's brief 2 which contains Ms. Johnson's 3 report entitled 'Connecting 4 People to Place: Great Lakes 5 Aboriginal History in 6 Cultural Context'. At Tab 2 7 is a hard copy of the 8 PowerPoint presentation and 9 in the official copy it is in 10 colour and at Tab 3 is Ms. 11 Johnson's CV. 12 13 CONTINUED BY MR. DERRY MILLAR: 14 Q: As well, Professor Johnston, you've 15 prepared a list -- a booklet of selected documents that 16 you are going to refer to -- may refer to in the course 17 of your presentation today? 18 A: Yes. 19 Q: And that contains twenty (20) tabs 20 and we've added the two (2) documents that I referred to 21 in my opening? 22 A: Yes. 23 MR. DERRY MILLAR: So there are twenty- 24 two (22) documents. I would ask that that be marked 25 Exhibit P-2, Commissioner?

1 COMMISSIONER SIDNEY LINDEN: Thank you 2 very much. 3 4 --- EXHIBIT NO P-2: Booklet of selected documents 5 that Professor Darlene 6 Johnston may refer to in the 7 course of her presentation. 8 9 CONTINUED BY MR. DERRY MILLAR: 10 Q: Then we have a electronic copy of 11 your PowerPoint presentation entitled 'Connecting People 12 to Place: Aboriginal History in Cultural Context' dated 13 July 10, 2004 and that contains your PowerPoint in 14 electronic form? 15 A: Yes. 16 MR. DERRY MILLAR: And would ask that 17 that be marked Exhibit P-3? 18 COMMISSIONER SIDNEY LINDEN: P-3. 19 20 --- EXHIBIT NO. P-3: Electronic copy of PowerPoint 21 presentation of Professor Darlene 22 Johnston entitled "Connecting People to 23 Place: Aboriginal History in Cultural 24 Context" dated July 10, 2004 25

1 CONTINUED BY MR. DERRY MILLAR: 2 Q: And, lastly, you provided, Ms. 3 Johnston, as did Ms. Holmes a CD -- you provided us with 4 a number of documents that are referred to in your 5 report; is that correct? 6 A: Yes. 7 MR. DERRY MILLAR: And what's -- those 8 documents, Commissioner, have been put on a CD by 9 Commission staff and, subject to any comments by My 10 Friends, I would tender the CD which is entitled 'Volume 11 8: Historical Research documents July 2, 2004' as Exhibit 12 P-4. 13 This CD, Commissioner, contains both Ms. 14 Johnston's documents and Ms. Holme's documents who will 15 be testifying next and My Friends have a copy of this CD. 16 COMMISSIONER SIDNEY LINDEN: That will be 17 marked Exhibit P-4. Does anybody have any observations, 18 comments? Thank you. 19 20 --- EXHIBIT NO. P-4: CD entitled "Volume 8: 21 Historical Research documents July 22 2, 2004" containing documents from 23 Ms. Johnston and Ms. Holmes 24 25 COMMISSIONER SIDNEY LINDEN: I'm sorry,

1 Mr. Ross...? 2 MR. ANTHONY ROSS: I take it, Mr. 3 Commissioner, that Exhibit 4 will be subject to your 4 hearing Ms. Holmes -- 5 COMMISSIONER SIDNEY LINDEN: Yes, of 6 course. 7 MR. ANTHONY ROSS: -- before it -- can it 8 go in. 9 COMMISSIONER SIDNEY LINDEN: Of course. 10 Thank you, Mr. Ross. 11 MR. DERRY MILLAR: Thank you. Mr. Ross 12 is correct, it's goes without saying that it goes in only 13 because -- 14 COMMISSIONER SIDNEY LINDEN: It's on the 15 same -- 16 MR. DERRY MILLAR: -- Ms. Holmes will be 17 called? 18 COMMISSIONER SIDNEY LINDEN: Yes. 19 20 CONTINUED BY MR. DERRY MILLAR: 21 Q: So, now, before we go into your 22 PowerPoint presentation, Ms. Johnston, I wonder if you 23 could tell us a little bit about the document that 24 appears at the last page of your report which is at Tab 25 1?

1 A: Yes. 2 Q: And what does this document do? 3 A: In part, it's a guide for people. As 4 I'm speaking, I'm going to be using a number of different 5 names and some names are totemic names, some names I 6 consider to be more national or linguistic or indicative 7 of political alliances. 8 And that's one of the challenges in 9 working with the early Great Lakes record is the extreme 10 variation in naming practices and it's easy, in fact, to 11 lose track of people or to think that you're dealing with 12 different groups of people because you're seeing 13 different names. 14 And so the chart, actually, is divided 15 into two (2) major sections, one for the Great Lakes 16 Algonquian speaking peoples and one for the Iroquoian 17 speaking peoples. 18 And when the French first came into the 19 region in the early 1600s these were the groups that were 20 represented. They represent two (2) major language 21 groups or language families. And the group with which 22 I'm more familiar with the Algonquian speaking group. 23 Algonquian is a term used by linguists but 24 it refers to people who, in our language, speak 25 Anishnaabemwin . Anishnaabeg people speak

1 Anishnaabemwin. And we, in fact, suffered, I think, the 2 -- the greatest disservice in terms of the naming 3 practices with our complex social and totemic and 4 political identities being distilled down to some very 5 common denominators, particularly by the British. 6 And what I mean by this is, each totemic 7 group, as a result of my research, I've been able to 8 find, had a particular name, and sometimes, in fact, more 9 than one (1) name. And when the French first came to the 10 region, their first guides into the Great Lakes were, in 11 fact, Iroquoian speaking peoples, the Huron, or the 12 Wendat, who lived in what's now Penatanguishene area. 13 And so when the French first came, the 14 first words they heard, or the first names they heard for 15 Anishnaabeg peoples, were Huron names. Then they got to 16 know the Anishnaabeg people and started using our 17 individual totemic names, but eventually they started in 18 terms, I suppose, of bureaucratic or administrative 19 efficiency, to use some generic terms. 20 So, rather than calling the various 21 groups, whether they're Crane people, Cat people -- 22 Catfish people, or Bear people; those names, those 23 started calling them Outaouac or the people that lived at 24 the Sioux, they called them Sauteurs. 25 Even so, the French had more variety in

1 their naming practises than the British. By the time the 2 British enter the region in 1760, they're calling people 3 either Chippewa, Ottawa, or Potawatomi. And those 4 designations, in fact, blur very important territorial 5 differences and totemic differences. 6 And so, I wanted to be able to show that, 7 of the very highly nuanced forms of identity that existed 8 at contact, they'd get watered down by the French and 9 then even more so by the British. And it creates a 10 problem then, because if the people that we're concerned 11 with, signed a Treaty in 1827, and they're called 12 Chippewas, and you go back looking for Chippewas in the 13 early contact period, you're not going to find them, 14 because Chippewa is not a name that they used themselves, 15 and it's not a name that the French use. 16 And so the name Chippewa doesn't show up 17 until the beginning of the British regime, and if you 18 insist on just looking for Chippewas, you'll think that 19 there were no Chipewas there in the early period. And so 20 you need another way, a more stable indicator of identity 21 to be able to make the connection back in time through 22 the French regime and into the very early contact period. 23 Q: And that indicator that you used is 24 totemic identity? 25 A: Yes. In my research, I'm satisfied

1 that totemic identity is the most stable and the earliest 2 form of identity, which persists across the four (4) 3 centuries since contact. 4 Q: And, simply, to illustrate the 5 problem, if you look at the top row of your chart, 6 Anishnaabeg people were called by the French by three (3) 7 different names? 8 A: Oh, there's more than that, but these 9 are the ones that show up in my report, so I didn't list 10 all of them. 11 Q: There are many, many more names. 12 A: Yes. 13 Q: And, in your report, those names 14 translate in the English period, to the names that are 15 listed in the third third column of your report? 16 A: Yes. 17 Q: Thank you. Now, if we might, could 18 we go to your PowerPoint presentation, and could you 19 begin? 20 A: Yes. 21 22 (BRIEF PAUSE) 23 24 I wanted to start with a picture, because 25 in my experience, it's very difficult to tell aboriginal

1 history from a purely archival, documentary record, at 2 least as document is understood in -- in current 3 practices. When we think of document, we think of a 4 piece of paper, we think of something written, we think 5 of something written alphabetically. 6 And this is actually a document, but it's 7 not an alphabetically rendered document. This is a 8 document which was created by people in authority, among 9 a particular group, sending a very important message to 10 the President of the United States. It's a symbolic 11 petition. 12 And in doing aboriginal history, if you 13 just look at the alphabetic records, you're going to miss 14 a very important part. You're going to miss, in fact, 15 the aboriginal part, of the -- of the history. 16 People speak about aboriginal people as 17 being preliterate or illiterate at contact, and were only 18 illiterate from the perspective of using an alphabet. 19 That's one (1) form of literacy. But we had a symbolic 20 form of literacy, such as you see in the wampum belts and 21 such as you see in this symbolic petition. 22 Q: And I -- 23 A: So -- 24 Q: Excuse me. I understand that this 25 petition was in -- in the 1840s?

1 A: Yes. This actually appears in my 2 document index. It's Document 490. It's not in colour 3 in the document index. Four ninety (490) is a document 4 by Henry Schoolcraft. Schoolcraft was an Indian Agent 5 for the American Government in the 1830s and '40s in the 6 Michigan Territory. 7 And he married a granddaughter of a famous 8 Caribou chief and became quite familiar with the language 9 and the traditions of the people whom he called Chippewa. 10 And his records are very important for demonstrating the 11 symbolic literacy of the Great Lakes Anishnaabeg people. 12 MR. DERRY MILLAR: Thank you. Just stop 13 for a moment. Commissioner, for the purposes of Counsel, 14 the number that Professor Johnston used, four ninety 15 (490), is in the database under 4000490, so you just need 16 to add a four thousand (4,000) to the front of the 17 number. 18 It's under INK.DOT.NO in the database. 19 But if you simply do a search for 4000490 it'll come up. 20 21 CONTINUED BY MR. DERRY MILLAR: 22 Q: Now, I interrupted you -- 23 A: Yes. 24 Q: -- can you tell us a little bit more 25 about this document?

1 A: Yes. This document as it appears in 2 Schoolcraft's text is entitled 'Symbolic Petition of 3 Chippewa Chiefs' and it was presented at Washington in 4 January 1849. So, it's one of the latest examples of 5 symbolic petition. 6 And it was presented by a delegation of 7 chiefs headed by Ohscabawis. Now, I'm interested in this 8 not simply because it's an example of symbolic literacy 9 and I want to open the historical record to -- to 10 aboriginal record making, but also because it speaks to 11 identify in a very fundamental way. 12 For me, this petition emphasizes the 13 extent to which totemic identity was the way that Great 14 Lakes peoples, Anishnaabeg people, saw and understood 15 themselves and represented themselves. 16 Because here, when you first look at this, 17 you see a variety of animals. You see a crane and -- 18 Q: And that's with Number 1? 19 A: Yes, sorry. 20 Q: And beside the crane there's the 21 number 1, just for the purposes of the record? 22 A: Yes. And Schoolcraft in his text 23 tells us who number 1 is; would you like me to refer to 24 that? 25 Q: Sure.

1 A: Yes, number 1, which is at page 417 2 of Schoolcraft's text, he says: 3 "The petition commences with the dodaim 4 of the chief called Oshcabawis." 5 That's O-S-H-C-A-B-A-W-I-S. 6 "Oshcabawis who headed the party who 7 was seen to be of the Ad-ji-jauk or 8 Crane clan." 9 So Ad-ji-jauk is the Ojibwe, 10 Anishinaabemwin word for crane. And so this chief, 11 instead of drawing himself as a man, draws himself as a 12 crane. And he's the leader of the delegation but he's 13 followed by three (3) four-legged animals with long 14 tails, these are marten; or wabajeshi. 15 Q: And they're identified on the slide 16 as two (2), three (3), and four (4)? 17 A: Yes. 18 Q: Thank you. 19 A: So these are Marten chiefs, but 20 they're not the head chief. They're not out in front. 21 Position is very important in symbolic literacy, the 22 organization of either signatures and marks or -- or 23 drawings. 24 So the Marten chiefs, there's one called 25 Waimittigoazh, I don't -- do you want me to spell the

1 names into the record? 2 COMMISSIONER SIDNEY LINDEN: Do you need 3 it? 4 MR. DERRY MILLAR: Yes. 5 COMMISSIONER SIDNEY LINDEN: It would be 6 very helpful if you did -- 7 THE WITNESS: Okay. 8 COMMISSIONER SIDNEY LINDEN: -- for the 9 record. 10 THE WITNESS: Number 2, in fact, is a 11 warrior W-A-I-M-I-T-T-I-G-O-A-Z-H and he's of the Dodaim 12 of the Marten. And the name signifies, literally, 'he of 13 the wooden vessel' which is the common designation of a 14 Frenchman. You say Waimittigoazh, it's -- tig -- tig is 15 a word for wood. 16 And it's supposed to have reference to the 17 first appearance of a ship in the waters of the St. 18 Laurence. The third person is Ogemageezhig. Again, 19 Ogema is the root word for 'chief'. O-G-E-M-A-G-E-E-Z-H- 20 I-G. He's also of the Marten clan and his name means 21 'Sky Chief'. 22 The fourth is also -- number 4, is also a 23 warrior of the Marten clan and he's Mukomisudains which 24 is a species of a small land tortoise according to -- to 25 Schoolcraft. And his name again is M-U-K-O-M-I-S-U-D-A-

1 I-N-S. 'Ains' is a diminutive ending which is put on a 2 word to show that you're talking about a small one of the 3 -- of the class mentioned. 4 Then we have Number 5, who's actually a -- 5 a member of the -- the Bear Clan. His name is Omushkose 6 O-M-U-S-H-K-O-S-E, which means the little elk. 7 And you'll see here the name of the person 8 -- the personal name doesn't necessarily have any 9 connection to the totemic name. He's not called Little 10 Bear. He's called Little Elk, but his dodaim -- his 11 dodaim is the -- is the bear. 12 And then Number 6 is a -- Penaisee, or 13 little bird. And that's P-E-N-A-I-S-E-E and he's a 14 member of the Nebanabaig, N-E-B-A-N-A-B-A-I-G dodaim and 15 this is a -- a dodaim which dwells in the water and can 16 sometimes take on the appearance of a man, so they call 17 it a man-fish or a -- or a merman in English. And 18 Schoolcraft speaks to the tradition surrounding that -- 19 that clan. 20 Then Number 7 is the Nawajewun or strong 21 stream. Nawajewun is N-A-W-A-J-E-W-U-N. And he's a 22 warrior of the Owassewg or the catfish dodaim. Owassewg 23 is O-W-A-S-S-E-W-G. 24 And so these seven (7) leaders travelled 25 to Washington and this is a document of the -- their trip

1 and it indicates their purpose. It's a record of -- of 2 why they went to see the president and this is what they 3 left behind. 4 And there's a number of elements which are 5 very important apart from the totemic identity in this 6 petition. You'll notice that the eye of the crane is 7 connected to each of the eyes of his followers. 8 9 10 CONTINUED BY MR. DERRY MILLAR: 11 Q: And that's on the -- on the slide. 12 It's -- that's signified by the line that runs from the 13 crane, Number 1, to each of the eyes of the other six (6) 14 people. 15 A: Yes. 16 Q: Six (6) figures. 17 A: And what this is evidence of, it's 18 tied in with his authority to be able to speak on their 19 behalf, because you see there's only one (1) line coming 20 from the crane's eye going forward to the President, but 21 before he's allowed to speak to the president, he has to 22 make sure that his people are of one (1) mind. 23 And that's what those connecting lines 24 demonstrate, that there's a consensus. They are of one 25 (1) mind when they come to deliver this message and this

1 request to the President. 2 You'll also notice there are a series of 3 lines going from the crane's heart, the Symbol Number 1, 4 back to the hearts of each of the -- the six (6) figures 5 behind him and again, to the same purport, which is that 6 they're of one (1) heart and one (1) mind and having 7 arrived at that state then the Chief is entitled to speak 8 on their behalf to the President. 9 Q: And the line that runs to the right 10 of the -- of the slide from the crane, the eye of the 11 crane to the right is a line that signifies the 12 connection with the then President of the United States? 13 A: Yes. But there's also a line, you'll 14 notice, running from the crane back beyond, behind the 15 catfish. 16 Q: That runs -- it's -- that line on the 17 slide is at the very top line of the slide, and it runs 18 from the crane on the right hand side of the slide, to 19 the left hand side down to the bottom where there are 20 three (3) -- four (4) circular items and it's the second. 21 A: Yes, and it's indicated by the Number 22 8, below the blue circular areas. And this, again, is an 23 important aspect of totemic identity or Aboriginal 24 identity which is to say these people are not speaking in 25 a vacuum. Even though they've travelled to

1 Washington, they're connected to a very specific 2 location, and that line grounds them in a particular 3 landscape and that the Chief derives his authority not 4 only from the fact that he's of one (1) mind and one (1) 5 heart with his followers, but also that he's connected to 6 the -- to the landscape. 7 And so we see the evidence of the 8 landscape in the blue horizontal line and then a path 9 which leads to this series of little blue lines, and I'll 10 read for you what Schoolcraft says about that: 11 "Beside the union of eye to eye and 12 heart to heart above depicted, 13 Oshcabawis, as represented by his 14 dodaim of the Crane has a line drawn 15 from his eye forward to denote the 16 course of his journey and another line 17 drawn backward to the series of small 18 rice lakes. Number 8, the grant of 19 which constitutes the object of the 20 journey. The long path -- The long 21 parallel lines..." 22 Which is Number 20. 23 "... represent Lake Superior and the 24 small parallel lines..." 25 Number 9.

1 "... a path leading from the central 2 point on its southern shore to the 3 villages and interior lakes..." 4 Number 8. 5 "... at which place the Indians 6 propose, if this plan be sanctioned, to 7 commence cultivation and the arts of 8 civilized life. The entire object is 9 thus symbolized in a manner which is 10 very clear to the tribes and to all who 11 have studied the simple elements of 12 this mode of communicating ideas." 13 And so, they're interested in speaking to 14 the President about a plan to secure a place for 15 agriculture because this is at a period of time when 16 there's much pressure from settlement and the people this 17 -- if this is a lake-wide phenomena having trouble living 18 in their traditional lifestyles of hunting and fishing. 19 And so they don't want to start farming 20 though until they have a guarantee that those lands will 21 be protected. And so the purpose of this communication 22 is to say that they are -- Chippewas from Lake Superior, 23 from a particular village, seeking a guarantee with 24 respect to a particular parcel of land. 25 Q: And that's the land at Item 8 where

1 the line ends? 2 A: Yes. 3 MR. DERRY MILLAR: Thank you very much. 4 Perhaps that would be a good time for the morning break, 5 Commissioner? 6 COMMISSIONER SIDNEY LINDEN: Excellent 7 idea. 8 MR. DERRY MILLAR: Thank you, Professor 9 Johnston. 10 COMMISSIONER SIDNEY LINDEN: Thank you 11 very much. We'll break from now until twelve o'clock? 12 MR. DERRY MILLAR: Sure. Thank you, sir. 13 THE REGISTRAR: All rise please. This 14 Inquiry will recess for fifteen (15) minutes. 15 16 --- Upon recessing at 11:45 a.m. 17 --- Upon resuming at 12:02 p.m. 18 19 THE REGISTRAR: This Inquiry is now 20 resumed. 21 22 CONTINUED BY MR. DERRY MILLAR: 23 Q: Thank you. Professor Johnston, Did 24 you want to add anything else with respect to the first 25 slide?

1 A: Yes. Again, I wanted to explain my 2 reason for beginning with this slide, it doesn't pertain 3 to people known in the 19th century as Chippewa belonging 4 to these various totemic identities. 5 And, the final point I wanted to make 6 about the symbolic representation, is that the chiefs did 7 not draw human figures on this petition. They did not 8 indicate their personal idiosyncrasies in terms of their 9 height or their hair style. 10 Rather, they represented themselves by 11 reference to their dodaim and so the Crane Chief 12 represented himself as a crane, not as a human being. 13 And for me, this persistence of this 14 tradition of representing an Anishnaabeg identity as 15 totemic, is very important in understanding the 16 relationship between human beings in this world, the 17 Great Lakes world, and the animals, or the other than 18 human beings, and the -- the landscape and -- and the 19 waterscape. 20 And I think it requires a fundamental 21 shift in -- in mindset and in worldview, to approach 22 history in an aboriginal cultural context, that humans 23 are not necessarily the center of creation, that humans 24 are -- are part of a creation and they don't distinguish 25 themselves in terms of their physical outer shell.

1 They may have a human body, but they're, 2 what I understand as totemic identity, is their -- their 3 core identity and this -- there's evidence of this core 4 totemic identity, from the very earliest record, 5 continuing up well into the Treaty period, and even -- 6 even to today. 7 And so, what I'm asking of people when 8 they consider these -- these drawings and the archival 9 written records that I'm going to refer to, is -- is to 10 try to tolerate this different way of looking at humans 11 and -- and looking at the world around us, because it's 12 only if there's an openness to the aboriginal perspective 13 of humans, and their place in creation, and their 14 responsibility to other than human beings, and to -- and 15 to the earth and -- and the waters, that we'll be able to 16 get a -- a informed culturally contextualized 17 understanding of the history between particular peoples 18 and particular places. 19 Q: Thank you. And, the next slide that 20 you are going to take us to is; can you describe what 21 that is? 22 A: Yes, this is a modern day man. We're 23 going to be looking at a number of maps today, both from 24 the early French and British period, and in those maps, 25 it may be hard for people to get their bearings, because

1 the actual orientation of the land forms and the waters, 2 are somewhat skewed, compared to their present -- their 3 modern mapping presentation, as well as the names have 4 changes. 5 So, I'm starting with a landscape that I 6 hope is familiar to everyone; of the Great Lakes. We 7 have lakes -- coming down from the St. Lawrence; Lakes 8 Ontario and Erie, going up to the Straits, between Lake 9 Erie and Lake Huron, and, in fact is the territory -- is 10 the territory that we're most -- I'm most intimately 11 concerned with -- 12 Q: And that's the territory north of -- 13 on the map that, I think it's the Thames River? 14 A: Yes. Well, I -- in the beginning I 15 just talk about the land between Lake Erie and Lake Huron 16 -- 17 Q: Yes. 18 A: -- and the straits that connect them 19 are the Detroit River, Lake St. Clair and the St. Clair 20 River. And then those straits lead into Lake Huron, 21 which has a main basin, as well as Georgian Bay, to the 22 east. And then there are other straits which lead into 23 Lake Superior and another Strait which leads into Lake 24 Michigan, to the south and west of Lake Huron. 25 Q: And you're pointing on the slide to

1 the area on the slide, just to the left of the Strait of 2 Makinac. 3 A: Yes, it's known as the Strait of 4 Makinac, and there's an island there, which the French 5 called Michilimakinac, which -- or Michella Makanat, 6 which is a rendering of the Anishnaabemwin, a word which 7 signifies 'Great Turtle', and it is this -- this is the 8 centre of -- of the Great Lakes for Anishnaabeg -- bemwin 9 -- the people who speak Anishnasbemwin, the people who I 10 refer to in -- earlier in my report, as the Anishnaabeg. 11 And what I want to use this map for is to 12 ground a particular tradition and origin story, in this 13 landscape, because in the aboriginal history and culture, 14 we need to understand how people saw themselves in 15 relation to their environment. 16 And creation stories across the world, in 17 fact, are -- are a way that cultural communities use to 18 ground their identity into particular narratives and into 19 particular landscapes. 20 So there's the creation story from the -- 21 from the Bible, and earlier, from the -- from the Talmud, 22 that grounds the story of Adam and Eve in a particular 23 landscape, which is the Garden of Eden, which actually in 24 those Biblical accounts, has a specific geographic 25 location in relation to mountains and -- and waters.

1 And the story that I want to examine this 2 morning is -- is the origin story for the Anishnaabeg and 3 peoples of the Great Lakes. It's -- it's one of the 4 origin stories, it's one of the very earliest, in fact as 5 far as I can tell, the earliest recorded origin story. 6 Q: Thank you. And the -- do you want to 7 tell us about that now? Are you going to -- 8 A: Yes. 9 Q: Thank you. 10 A: I -- I thought I would, with the use 11 of -- of this map. The -- the story was recorded by a 12 French official fur trader and explorer. His name was 13 Nicola Perrot; "P-e-r-r-o-t". Perrot was one of the 14 first French men who overwintered in the upper Great 15 Lakes region, north of Lake Huron and Lake Superior, and 16 he -- 17 Q: When was this? 18 A: In the 1660's, '70s, '80s. 19 Q: Thank you. 20 A: And he published a memoir in French 21 or wrote a memoir and his memoir -- he spoke French, also 22 he spoke Anishnaabemwin. He finished his memoir in 1718 23 and it's in the document list at Document 4000433 and 24 it's his memoir on the manners, custom and religion of 25 the savages of North America.

1 I have to apologize for the use of the 2 term "savages". The French use the term "sauvage" which 3 you could say sauvage, fraises sauvage -- fraises sauvage 4 which is wild strawberries. 5 It basically means not domesticated or not 6 farmed. But when it gets translated into English, it has 7 a much cruder meaning. But anyway, so I apologize any 8 time I have to use that expression. It -- it's what's 9 used in -- in the documents. 10 But he -- he did this memoir in 1718. It 11 didn't get published until the 1860's in French and it 12 didn't get published in English until 1911. So it's a 13 very, very early recording of an oral tradition which he 14 heard delivered in the Great Lakes region when he 15 overwintered with the people there and he put it in 16 writing. 17 I still consider it to be oral tradition, 18 because it is -- he -- he heard it orally. It has, of 19 course, has been translated from the Anishnaabemwin into 20 French and then into English. There are always problems 21 when you have to work with successive levels, successive 22 generations of stories in terms of -- of translation and 23 publication. 24 But it's the earliest story which I've 25 found which is consistent with what I've been taught and

1 also helps to make sense of the relationship between 2 totemic identity and how people understand their place in 3 the world and their connection to particular landscapes. 4 So Perrot starts to tell a story, or does 5 write down a story that -- that he heard in the Upper 6 Great Lakes in the -- in the 1670's. And I call it an 7 origin story, sometimes in my report I referred to it as 8 a creation story. 9 It's not a creation story in the sense of 10 the beginning of the earth. It's really a story after 11 the earth has been created and the animals are living on 12 the earth but the earth has been flooded. 13 There's flood traditions all -- all around 14 the world. And it probably has something to do with the 15 ice age and the retreats of the glaciers and the flooding 16 that followed. 17 But he's telling this -- he's hearing this 18 story, I should say, at a time when the earth is flooded 19 and the creatures of the deeps are living under the water 20 and there's land under the water, but there are land 21 animals who are now without lands and they find 22 themselves on a raft, floating in the middle of this 23 great water. 24 And there are no human beings, yet, in 25 this story. So this is a story of human creation, or the

1 origin of human beings, the origin of the Anishnaabeg in 2 the -- in the Great Lakes. 3 And the animals are floating on a raft and 4 there are many different animals represented there but 5 the chief among them is the Great Hare, the large rabbit. 6 And Michabous, Wabasso is a Ojibwe term for a rabbit and 7 Michabous is the great or the Giant Hare. 8 And he's the chief among these animals 9 that are on the raft. He's the one who has the most 10 power but it's clear in Perrot's account that he operates 11 by consensus and seeking co-operation. 12 So the Great Hare, Michabous knows that 13 there's land under the water but he's not much of a 14 swimmer. And he -- he asks the Beaver, who's also on the 15 raft, the great beaver, if he would dive to the bottom 16 and get a grain of sand and he assures him that if he 17 does bring up some sand, even the smallest grain, that 18 then Michabous will use his power to create land. 19 And his object in creating the land, he 20 promised, was to make enough land for all the animals so 21 that they could all find their sustenance. So this is 22 first of all, then, a story of recreating the land and 23 making a place for -- for all of the -- all the land 24 beings. 25 So the Beaver dives down into the water

1 and he's gone for a very long time and the other animals 2 begin to fear that he has drowned. He eventually 3 surfaces, near lifeless. He's drawn on to the rafts by 4 the other animals and they search but can find no sand. 5 So then Michabous asks the -- the Otter, 6 gitchenegig, the Great Otter, to dive and he takes some 7 persuading because it's a very risky proposition. But 8 again the promise is, that if -- if the -- if the otter 9 will bring up the sand, then the Great Hare will make 10 land enough for all. 11 And so the Otter dives down very deep and 12 again, is gone for a very long time, and when he 13 surfaces, is -- proves unable to reach the bottom and -- 14 and bring any sand back. 15 So the animals are starting to be quite 16 concerned and then the Muskrat, the lowly Muskrat as it 17 were, who's not nearly as accomplished a diver as the 18 beaver or the otter, the muskrat volunteers to go down. 19 And the animals aren't terribly confident 20 in his abilities but they've got nothing to lose and off 21 he goes. And he's gone, according to Perrot, according 22 to the story that Perrot heard, he's gone for twenty-four 23 (24) hours. 24 And he surfaces, near lifeless, beside the 25 raft, and the animals pull him up and lay him out on the

1 raft and they open one paw and then the next and then the 2 third and then the fourth and finally in the fourth paw 3 is a little grain of sand. 4 And so he had -- he had reached the 5 bottom. He's revived by the Great Hare and then the 6 Great Hare takes the grain of sand and begins then to 7 produce the land with it. 8 I refer to Perrot's repo -- account in my 9 report -- 10 Q: At page 5. Starting at page 4 and 11 then page 5. 12 A: Yes. So I've already paraphrased the 13 -- the first episode, but I'll begin then when the 14 Muskrat has arrived with the grain of sand. And this is 15 verbatim from the translation of the transcription of 16 Perrot's memoir. This is the English translation by Emma 17 Helen Blair: 18 "The Great Hare who had promised to 19 form a broad and spacious land, took 20 this grain of sand, and let it fall 21 upon the rafts when it began to 22 increase. Then he took a part of it 23 and scattered this about, which caused 24 the massive soil to grow larger and 25 larger.

1 When it had reached the size of a 2 mountain, he started to walk around it 3 and steadily increased in size to the 4 extent of his path." 5 Now the mountain that's referred to, the 6 aboriginal people situate this origin story on the island 7 of Michilimackinac which is in the Straits of Makinak 8 which I pointed to. 9 So, this story is not happening off 10 somewhere in outer space. It's happening in a very 11 particular landscape and the mountain of Michilimackinac 12 is one of the artefacts or proof, as it were, of -- of 13 these -- of the events. 14 "As soon as he -- 15 -- that's the Great Hare: 16 "thought it was large enough, he 17 ordered the Fox to go and inspect his 18 work with power to enlarge it still 19 more and the latter obeyed. 20 The Fox, when he ascertained that it 21 was sufficiently extensive for him, 22 that the land was able to contain -- 23 for him to secure easily his own prey, 24 returned to the Great Hare to inform 25 him that the land was able to contain

1 and support all the animals. 2 At this report, the Great Hare made a 3 tour throughout his creation and found 4 that it was incomplete. Since then, he 5 has not been willing to trust any of 6 the other animals and continues always 7 to increase what he has made, by moving 8 without cessation around the earth. 9 This idea causes the people to say when 10 they hear loud noises in the hollows of 11 the mountains that the Great Hare is 12 still enlarging the earth. They pay 13 honours to him and regard him as the 14 deity who created it. 15 Such is the information which those 16 people give us regarding the creation 17 of the world which they believe to be 18 always born upon that raft as for the 19 sea and the firmament, they assert that 20 these have existed for all time." 21 And so, this is the beginning, then, of 22 the recreation of the earth. And the understanding that 23 it reflects is that creation is an ongoing process, in 24 fact, they think, it's not as though the Great Hare 25 creates the earth and then disappears. He's -- it's a

1 continuing act and the creative force continues to move 2 throughout the Great Lakes landscape. 3 It -- it also teaches about the importance 4 of co-operation in -- in achieving mutual support and 5 sustenance and it teaches again, that the land was meant 6 for the sustenance of all, that the Great Hare wanted to 7 be sure that there was enough land for each of the 8 animals to make their living. 9 And I think that this story has great 10 explanatory force in terms of the aboriginal 11 understanding of the purpose of -- of the -- the -- the 12 creation of the relationship between humans and animals 13 and their environment. 14 But to get to the actual creation of 15 humans, they haven't been created yet, remember, we have 16 the great animals and we have the -- the raft turned to 17 land. And the creation is picked up in the next chapter 18 by Perrot which I've excerpted at page 6 of my report. 19 Q: Yes. 20 A: So, here comes now the creation of 21 human beings in this -- in this story, and again I think 22 it's the connection between the animals in the creation 23 story and the humans that -- that is very powerful in 24 explaining the -- the strength of totemic identity and 25 why I consider it to be a core and very stable identity.

1 And Perrot continues: 2 "After the creation of the earth all 3 the other animals withdrew into the 4 places which each kind found most 5 suitable for obtaining therein their 6 pasture or their prey. When the first 7 ones died the Great Hare caused the 8 birth of men from their corpses as also 9 from those of the fishes that were 10 found along the shores of the rivers 11 which he had formed in creating the 12 land. Accordingly, some of the people 13 derive their origins from a bear, 14 others from a moose and others, 15 similarly, from various kinds of 16 animals. And before they had 17 intercourse with the Europeans they 18 firmly believed this, persuaded that 19 they had their being from those kinds 20 of creatures whose origin was as above 21 explained. Even today, the notion 22 passes among them for undoubted truth. 23 And if there are any of them at this 24 time who are weaned from believing this 25 dream, it has been only by dint of

1 laughing at them for so ridiculous a 2 belief. You will hear them say that 3 their villages each bear the name of 4 the animal which has given its people 5 their being as that of the Crane or the 6 Bear or of other animals." 7 Now, Perrot, in this passage, shows the 8 difficulty that I experience in using European authored 9 documents as transmission records for traditions because 10 I do believe that he's telling the story that he heard, 11 but he cant resist in interpreting it and calling it 12 ridiculous. 13 And I think over time if this story does 14 not appear in the record or changes form in the record, 15 it's partly because people wanted to avoid this ridicule 16 and didn't want to share their teachings if they were 17 going to be made -- made fun of. 18 But, again, this is -- this is the 19 earliest rendition and he goes on which -- to tie a very 20 particular landscape to a particular animal in -- in the 21 -- in the origin story and that's what I think is vital 22 about taking this story beyond people's understandings of 23 their beginnings to their understandings of their place 24 in a particular landscape. 25 So he's -- he talks then about the, what's

1 now known today as the Georgian Bay area and we have the 2 Saugine, now known as the Bruce Peninsula, my ancestors' 3 homeland. We have the eastern shore of Georgian Bay and 4 the mouth of the French River which leads up to Lake 5 Nippissing. 6 Now, what I've done here in the 7 continuation of this story is to superimpose on this map, 8 this modern day map, the -- one of the earliest symbols 9 for a beaver person; that is a human person who 10 understands themselves to be a beaver and represents 11 themselves as a beaver. We'll see this image show up on 12 later archival documents. 13 And what Perrot does in his recounting of 14 the origin story is he tells us precisely where the 15 beaver went when he left that raft -- when he left that 16 island on Michilimackinac. The beaver swam along the 17 north shore of what is now known as Lake Huron and 18 continues on his travels through the French River. 19 And what's very important is the Great 20 Hare made the land but the other animals modified the 21 landscape. So that when the beaver went up the French 22 River, wherever he had trouble getting through, he made 23 dams, he flooded certain areas. He's responsible, in 24 people's understandings, for the portages and Perrot 25 gives us a very precise geographical reference for the

1 traditions surrounding the life and the work of the Great 2 Beaver. 3 Which, in Anishinabemowan, Kitche-amik 4 translates as great -- the Great Beaver. 5 And, again, I'm at page 6 of my report. 6 Q: And before you go to page 6, could I 7 just place on this slide the French River is shown on the 8 top part of the slide at the -- the line coming out of 9 just above the "E" on "Georgian Bay"; is that correct? 10 A: Yes. 11 Q: And it leads to Lake Nippissing? 12 A: Yes. 13 Q: And Lake Nippissing is on the right- 14 hand side of -- of the drawing? 15 A: Perhaps this would be a good time to 16 show the other map which we have? 17 Q: Yes, that would be. And this is a 18 larger map of -- of -- showing the same area between Lake 19 Huron, Lake Erie on the south, Georgian Bay, and up on 20 the right, Lake Nippissing. 21 A: Yes, it is. 22 Q: And it also shows, this map, Lake 23 Ontario and the St. Lawrence River on the right hand side 24 of the map? 25 A: Yes, we have the St. Lawrence River

1 coming down from the Gulf of St. Lawrence and at the 2 place where modern day -- I'm having trouble with my 3 laser here -- where modern day Montreal is, we have the 4 entrance to the Ottawa river system. 5 And the Ottawa river system comes quite 6 close, then, to Lake Nippissing. There's a series of 7 portages that have to be gone through. But then from 8 Lake Nippissing, you come down the French River onto 9 Georgian Bay. 10 And so Perrot is familiar with this 11 landscape, that's how he's travelled up into the Great 12 Lakes, and he's telling the story that he's heard from 13 the people who live in this environment how they came to 14 be and how they, as he was speaking, identify themselves. 15 So they -- he tells about how the beaver 16 went along the French River and Lake Nippissing, how he 17 travelled all the way to the Calumets which is almost 18 down to Montreal on the Ottawa River, that he made a 19 number of portages and dams, and while he was travelling 20 he populated the country with beaver children; that is 21 beaver beavers, but then, when he died, that's when the 22 human beavers were created. 23 So Perrot tells us that at the end of his 24 days, he went to a mountain north of Lake Nippissing and 25 that's where he died. So we know precisely where he

1 travelled the rivers, the dams, the portages and -- and 2 the mountain for his final resting place. 3 And this is Perrot, then, talking: 4 "They believe that he is buried to the 5 north of this lake, toward the place 6 where the mountain appears to have the 7 shape of the beaver and that his tomb 8 is there. This is the reason why they 9 call the place where he lies. "The 10 Slain Beaver'. 11 When those peoples pass by that place 12 they invoke him and blow tobacco smoke 13 into the air in order to honour his 14 memory and to entreat him to be 15 favourable to them in the journey they 16 have to make." 17 And so the landscape for the Aboriginal 18 peoples of the Great Lakes is not just a physical 19 landscape, it's a -- it's a spiritual landscape, it's a 20 creative and constantly changing landscape, but that the 21 -- there are landmarks such as the final resting pl