1 2 3 IPPERWASH PUBLIC INQUIRY 4 5 6 7 ******************** 8 9 10 BEFORE: THE HONOURABLE JUSTICE SIDNEY LINDEN, 11 COMMISSIONER 12 13 14 15 16 Held at: Forest Community Centre 17 Kimball Hall 18 Forest, Ontario 19 20 21 ******************** 22 23 24 January 18th, 2005 25

2
  1                        Appearances
  2  Derry Millar      )             Commission Counsel
  3  Susan Vella        )
  4  Donald Worme, Q. C )
  5  Katherine Hensel  )
  6  
  7  Murray Klippenstein )            The Estate of Dudley 
  8  Vilko Zbogar       )            George and George
  9  Andrew Orkin       )  (Np)      Family Group
 10  Basil Alexander    ) (np)       Student-at-Law
 11  
 12  Peter Rosenthal  )              Aazhoodena and George
 13  Jackie Esmonde   )              Family Group
 14  
 15  Anthony Ross     )              Residents of 
 16  Kevin Scullion   )              Aazhoodena
 17                                   (Army Camp)
 18  
 19  William Henderson )              Kettle Point & Stony
 20  Jonathon George  )              Point First Nation
 21  
 22  Kim Twohig       )   (np)       Government of Ontario
 23  Walter Myrka     )   (np)
 24  Sue Freeborn     )   (np)
 25  Maureen Smith    )

3
  1                   APPEARANCES (cont'd)
  2  Janet Clermont   )              Municipality of 
  3  David Nash       )   (Np)       Lambton Shores
  4  
  5  Peter Downard    )              The Honourable Michael
  6  Bill Hourigan    )   (Np)       Harris
  7  Jennifer McAleer )
  8  
  9  Nancy Spies      )   (Np)       Robert Runciman
 10  Alice Mrozek     )   (Np)
 11  
 12  Harvey Stosberg  )   (np)       Charles Harnick
 13  Jacqueline Horvat )   (np)
 14  
 15  Douglas Sulman, Q.C. )           Marcel Beaubien
 16  Trevor Hinnegan     ) (np)
 17  
 18  Mark Sandler       ) (np)       Ontario Provincial 
 19  Andrea Tuck-Jackson )            Ontario Provincial Police
 20  Leslie Kaufman     )  (np)
 21  
 22  Ian Roland       )              Ontario Provincial 
 23  Karen Jones      )   (np)       Police Association &
 24  Debra Newell     )              K. Deane
 25  Annie Leeks      )

4
  1                   APPEARANCES (cont'd)
  2  
  3  Julian Falconer  )   (np)       Aboriginal Legal 
  4  Brian Eyolfson   )              Services of Toronto
  5  Julian Roy       )   (np)
  6  
  7  Al J.C. O'Marra  )              Office of the Chief
  8  Robert Ash, Q.C. )    (np)       Coroner
  9  
 10  William Horton   )              Chiefs of Ontario
 11  Matthew Horner   )   (np)
 12  Kathleen Lickers )   (Np)
 13  
 14  Mark Frederick   )   (np)       Christopher Hodgson
 15  Craig Mills      )   (np)
 16  Megan Mackey     )
 17  
 18  David Roebuck    )   (Np)       Debbie Hutton
 19  Anna Perschy     )
 20  Melissa Panjer   )   (np)
 21  Danya Cohen-Nehemia ) (np)
 22  
 23  
 24  
 25

1 TABLE OF CONTENTS 2 Page 3 Exhibits 6 4 5 NICHOLAS ABRAHAM COTTRELLE, Sworn 6 7 Examination-in-Chief by Mr. Derry Millar 7 8 Cross-Examination by Mr. Murray Klippenstein 173 9 Cross-Examination by Mr. Peter Rosenthal 175 10 Cross-Examination by Ms. Andrea Tuck-Jackson 204 11 Cross-Examination by Mr. Ian Roland 223 12 Cross-Examination by Ms. Jennifer McAleer 275 13 Cross-Examination by Mr. Al O'Marra 291 14 15 16 17 Certificate of Transcript 298 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25

1 EXHIBITS 2 No. Description Page 3 P-124 Document No. 1002409, page 15 4 13, map of Ipperwash Military 5 Reserve marked by witness 6 Nicholas Cottrelle, January 18/05 7 8 P-125 "Stan" Thompson Drawing, 74 9 September 20/95, marked by 10 Witness Nicholas Cottrelle, 11 Jan 18/05 12 13 P-126 Photographs by OPP and SIU 160 14 Sept 7/95, Six Photographs 15 1) 15.1a; 2)mag 50, 15.6a; 16 3)15-7a; 4)mag 49, 15.9a; 17 5)mag 51, 15.11a; 6)mag 52, 15.15a 18 plus CD Rom 19 P-127 Document No. 1004971 Judgment of 20 Justice Graham May 26/97, Ontario 21 Court, Provincial Division, Youth 22 Court, Sarnia, Ontario 203 23 24 P-128 Pamphlet Advertising the Aazhoodena 25 Renegade Jamboree 289

1 --- Upon commencing at 9:00 a.m. 2 3 THE REGISTRAR: This Public Inquiry is 4 now in session. The Honourable Mr. Justice Linden 5 presiding. Please be seated. 6 COMMISSIONER SIDNEY LINDEN: Good 7 morning. 8 MR. DERRY MILLAR: Good morning, 9 Commissioner. Our -- the next witness is Mr. Nicholas 10 Cottrelle. 11 12 NICHOLAS ABRAHAM COTTRELLE, Sworn 13 14 EXAMINATION-IN-CHIEF BY MR. DERRY MILLAR: 15 Q: Morning, Mr. Cottrelle. 16 A: Morning. 17 Q: I understand you were born on March 18 8th, 1979? 19 A: Yes. 20 Q: And so that at the beginning of 21 September 1995 you were sixteen (16) years old? 22 A: Yes. 23 Q: And your parents are Gina Dawn George 24 and Roderick Abraham George? 25 A: Yes.

1 Q: And your father is sometimes -- his 2 nickname is Judas? 3 A: Yeah. 4 Q: And you have six (6) siblings; as I 5 understand it the oldest is your sister, Wendy George? 6 A: Yes. 7 Q: Followed by your sister, Charlotte 8 Cottrelle? 9 A: Charmin (phonetic) 10 Q: Charmin Cottrelle? Excuse me. 11 A: Yes. 12 Q: Then Jody George? 13 A: Yes. 14 Q: And then you? 15 A: Yeah. 16 Q: And your younger brother is Mel 17 George? 18 A: Sister. 19 Q: Excuse me, your sister is Mel George? 20 A: Yeah. 21 Q: And then Amanda George and Stephanie 22 George? 23 A: Yes. 24 Q: And your nickname is "Ugga"? 25 A: Yeah.

1 Q: That's U-G-G-A? 2 A: Yeah. 3 Q: And your maternal grandparents were 4 Dorothy Shawnoo, who was from the Chippewas of Sarnia 5 First Nation? 6 A: Yes. 7 Q: And Leo Stinson from the Chippewas of 8 Rama First Nation? 9 A: Yes. 10 Q: And on your father's side, your 11 paternal grandparents were Abraham George? 12 A: Yes. 13 Q: And Muriel George? 14 A: Yeah. 15 Q: And your grandfather, Abraham George, 16 his nickname is "Hamster"? 17 A: Yes. 18 Q: And your grandparent -- your 19 grandfather, Abraham George, came from Stoney Point? 20 A: Yes. 21 Q: His parents were Robert and Laura 22 George? 23 A: Yes, that's correct. 24 Q: And in 1995 -- in June of 1995 -- you 25 finished Grade 10 at school?

1 A: Yes, that's correct. 2 Q: And where were you attending school? 3 A: Here in Forest -- North Lambton 4 Secondary School. 5 Q: North Lambton Secondary? And in 6 September you were scheduled to go back to Grade 11? 7 A: Yes. 8 Q: And did you go back? 9 A: No. 10 Q: And why did you not go back? 11 A: Because of my involvement down at 12 Ipperwash -- the incident down there. I felt that my 13 time was better spent there. 14 Q: Pardon me? 15 A: I felt that my time was better spent 16 at home. 17 Q: Okay, we'll come back to that later. 18 Now, the -- when did you first learn about the 19 circumstances of the appropriation? 20 A: When I was younger. All throughout 21 my childhood I was always -- it was always known to me. 22 Q: And how did you learn about that, Mr. 23 Cottrelle? 24 A: Through what my grandfather told me, 25 my mother and my father.

1 Q: And what type of things did they tell 2 you? Do you recall? 3 A: Mostly that people was uprooted in 4 '42; that they were supposed to get their land back after 5 the war was done, but it was never given back. 6 Q: And were you told anything about the 7 life at Stoney Point by your grandfather or your -- your 8 father, that he had learned? 9 A: Not so much as the life. Like, we 10 actually lived down there just more of when he moved to 11 Kettle Point that they weren't very -- they weren't very 12 welcome down there. 13 Q: Okay. And did you attend the funeral 14 of Dan George at the Army Camp? 15 A: Yes, I did. 16 Q: And you would have been about eleven 17 (11) at that time? 18 A: Yes. 19 Q: And prior to 1993, did you -- had you 20 visited the Army Camp? 21 A: Yeah, mostly for wood cutting in the 22 winter. 23 Q: And when you say, "for wood cutting," 24 what would you do? You would -- 25 A: We were only allowed day -- a day or

1 two (1) to cut the wood for winter. We would have to go 2 to Kettle Point Band Council for -- I think it was a wood 3 cutting permit or something and we'd go through the front 4 gate and to do all this paper work. 5 Q: And you went down with your father? 6 A: Yes. 7 Q: And the -- so you would cut the wood 8 that you needed for the winter on -- on the Army Camp? 9 A: Yes. 10 Q: And did you visit -- in addition to 11 your father, did you go with anyone else? 12 A: My uncle, some -- most of the time, 13 would go along too. 14 Q: And your uncles are Stewart George? 15 A: Stewart, Elwood. 16 Q: And Elwood George? 17 A: Yeah. 18 Q: And did you ever visit, prior to 19 1993, the Army Camp to hunt or fish? 20 A: No. 21 Q: And when you -- when did you go onto 22 the Army Camp in 1993? 23 A: I can't rem -- remember the first day 24 I went on, but I was mostly there during weekends, in 25 between school.

1 Q: And did you go on shortly after the 2 occupation? We've heard that it was on May 6th, 1993? 3 A: Sometime after, yeah. 4 Q: And -- so you were going to school at 5 the -- in Forest, at the North Lambton Secondary School 6 and you were living at Kettle Point? 7 A: Yes. 8 Q: So that you would visit on the 9 weekends? 10 A: Yes. 11 Q: And on the weekends, who would you 12 stay with? 13 A: Pretty much anybody, but mostly we 14 stayed -- there was a campsite there next to Dudley's 15 trailer where we mostly stayed. 16 Q: And if -- on the screen, I've got a 17 copy of the Exhibit P-40 and there's a copy of that as 18 well in front of you, Mr. Cottrelle. 19 And I wonder if you could point out on the 20 Exhibit P-40 where there's a laser -- where you stayed? 21 A: It'd be right in here. 22 Q: Okay, and to the right of the -- to 23 the right of the area you're pointing is a building that 24 is still there? 25 A: Yes.

1 Q: That's -- there's a little black dot. 2 I don't know if you can see it. It's more visible -- 3 it's just to the left of the road that runs north from 4 the rifle ranges. Is that the building that -- 5 A: Yes. 6 Q: -- that -- 7 A: That's a steel building we used for 8 storage and stuff. 9 Q: Yes. So, I wonder if you could just 10 mark on exhibit -- on the map in front of you and where 11 you stayed when you first went on to the Army camp, in 12 1993, or where the camps were of your... 13 A: (INDICATING) 14 Q: And I understand that Mr. Dudley 15 George's trailer was just on the right -- east side of 16 the road that runs down north and south by the rifle 17 ranges there. Is that your understanding? 18 A: Yes. 19 Q: And perhaps we could mark that the 20 next exhibit. It'd be P-125. 21 THE REGISTRAR: Yes, sir. P-124, your 22 Honour. 23 MR. DERRY MILLAR: 124? 24 THE REGISTRAR: 124. 25 MR. DERRY MILLAR: 124, thank you.

1 COMMISSIONER SIDNEY LINDEN: 124. 2 3 --- EXHIBIT NO. P-124: Document No. 1002409, page 4 13, map of Ipperwash Military 5 Reserve marked by witness 6 Nicholas Cottrelle, January 7 18/05 8 9 CONTINUED BY MR. DERRY MILLAR: 10 Q: And after you finished school in 11 1995, did you spend more time at the Army camp, along the 12 rifle ranges? 13 A: In '95? 14 Q: I mean in '93, excuse me. 15 A: Like, during the summer time, 16 summer -- 17 Q: Yes. 18 A: Yeah, mostly I was down there pretty 19 much the whole summer. We had moved the bus down to the 20 beach area and mostly stayed in there, during the summer. 21 Q: The beach area -- the bus in '93 was 22 moved to the beach along Lake Huron? 23 A: Yeah. It'd be right in here. 24 Q: And you're pointing to an area just 25 west of the -- on Exhibit P-40 is the -- the point that

1 goes out into the Lake underneath the number 86. Can you 2 mark Number 2 on Exhibit P-124 where the bus was? 3 A: (INDICATING). Number 2? 4 Q: Yes. 5 6 (BRIEF PAUSE) 7 8 Q: And in the summer, the bus was moved 9 down to -- up to the beach. Is that the bus that's owned 10 by Warren George? 11 A: Yes. 12 Q: And is that the bus that we'll hear 13 more about later, that was used on September 6th? 14 A: Yes. 15 Q: And did you -- when you were up on 16 the shore, in the bus, did you sleep on the bus or did 17 you have a tent or? 18 A: Yeah, we had ripped out all the seats 19 and had it all fixed up in there, so. 20 Q: So you could sleep in it? 21 A: Yeah. 22 Q: Okay. And who did you stay with in 23 the summer of 1993, on the bus? 24 A: It wasn't really like people that 25 stayed in there constant, it's people that came and go.

1 Mostly my cousins. 2 Q: Your cousins? 3 A: Yeah. 4 Q: And the -- during the summer of 1993, 5 were you involved in learning about the traditions of 6 your people from Marcia Simon or others? 7 A: Yeah. A lot of people sat around the 8 fire, nighttimes, during the day, and they talked about 9 traditions and the people and stuff about the land. 10 Q: And did you become involved in a 11 society, when you moved on to the Army Camp in 1993? 12 A: Yes. It was brought to my intention. 13 Q: And can you tell us a little bit 14 about that? And could you speak up a bit, Mr. 15 Cottrelle -- 16 A: Yeah. 17 Q: -- I think people may be having 18 trouble hearing you. And there's a glass of water there 19 if you need it. 20 A: Okay. It was brought to my attention 21 about the Warrior Society. 22 Q: Yes. 23 A: About their roles in protecting the 24 land as well as the well-being of the people that lived 25 down there.

1 Q: And who brought that to your 2 attention? 3 A: I believe it was Glenn. 4 Q: And can you tell us a little bit more 5 about what you understood the role of the Society was? 6 A: It was more or less to protect the 7 ways of our people. 8 Q: Yes. 9 A: And to protect the land. 10 Q: Yes. And by protecting the land, 11 what do you mean by that? 12 A: Just against all aggressors. 13 Q: And were you to protect the land 14 using weapons or in peaceful ways, or how? 15 A: Peaceful ways. 16 Q: And -- and can you tell us a little 17 bit more about what you learned about that? 18 A: Well, with -- with the Park it was 19 always everybody's understanding that it was going to be 20 done peacefully, with no weapons. The same with the 21 occupation of the territory as a whole too, was to be 22 done peaceful. 23 Q: And did you talk to your grandfather, 24 Abraham George, about the Society? 25 A: I can't really remember.

1 Q: And the -- did part of your duties 2 involve assisting old people, the elderly -- 3 A: Yes. 4 Q: -- the Elders? 5 A: Wood cutting, running errands for 6 them. 7 Q: And that was part of your -- your 8 obligation as a member of the Society? 9 A: Just common knowledge, just out of 10 respect. 11 Q: And you told me before that you would 12 not call -- call it a Warrior Society but would give it a 13 different name; can you tell me what that name was? 14 A: Myself, I prefer Peacekeepers. 15 Q: And why do you prefer Peacekeepers? 16 A: Well, that's what we're -- that's 17 what we're doing, is trying to keep the peace with the 18 situation in a whole, I guess. 19 Q: And the situation in this case, in 20 1993, it was at the Army Camp? 21 A: Yes. 22 Q: And along the ranges and then later 23 in a larger part of the area? 24 A: Yes. 25 Q: And then later at the Park?

1 A: Yes. 2 Q: And in the fall of 1993, did you 3 return to school? 4 A: Yes, I did. 5 Q: And how often in the fall and the 6 winter of 1993 -- how -- what -- how often did you go to 7 the Army Camp, if you went to the Army Camp? 8 A: Any chance I got, really. But during 9 the winter months it was kind of -- really not too often 10 because I didn't have a car or nothing. 11 Q: Pardon me? You didn't have a car? 12 A: Yeah. So I didn't feel like walking 13 -- walking in the wintertime. 14 Q: And in the summer of 1994 after you 15 finished school? 16 A: Yeah. I was pretty much back -- back 17 down there. 18 Q: And living in -- in around the same 19 area, along the rifle ranges of -- near the Number 1, or 20 were you back up on the beach? 21 A: We moved around quite a bit. People 22 had different -- different camps around that territory. 23 So, I kind of just stayed wherever. 24 Q: So, you would simply go and visit 25 different people and stay --

1 A: Yeah. 2 Q: -- in different camps? 3 A: Yeah. 4 Q: And in 1990 -- the winter of 1994- 5 1995 you went back to school? 6 A: Yes. 7 Q: And did you visit the Army Camp very 8 often? 9 A: Yes, I did. 10 Q: Pardon me? 11 A: Yes. 12 Q: You would visit during the 13 wintertime? 14 A: Yeah. 15 Q: Okay. And in the spring of 1995 and 16 in the summer of 1995, after you finished school but 17 before July 29th, did you live back at the Army Camp? 18 A: Yes. 19 Q: Now, when you were visiting the Army 20 camp, did you hunt on the Army camp in 1993 or 1994? 21 A: No. 22 Q: And in that period of time, were you 23 a hunter? 24 A: No. 25 Q: And in the period 1993/1994/1995,

1 prior to September 6th 1995, did you own a firearm? 2 A: No. 3 Q: And we've heard some evidence about a 4 incident with the -- alleged incident with a helicopter 5 in August of 1993. 6 Were you present in the -- on the Army 7 camp along the rifle ranges, when that incident occurred? 8 A: No. 9 Q: You were not? 10 A: No. 11 Q: And in the period 1993 and 1994, and 12 frankly up to July 29th, 1995, did you have any 13 interactions with the military or the military police on 14 the Army camp? 15 A: Quite a few, actually. 16 Q: And can you tell us what your 17 interactions were? 18 A: Jeez, I don't know where to start. 19 But there were quite a few incidents of -- when the 20 cadets were there, they would sneak through the bush and 21 -- up to the campsites, harass people there, that way. 22 Q: And when you say they -- the "cadets 23 would sneak through the bush up to the campsites and 24 harass people," what do you mean by "harass people"? 25 A: Like -- well there was the one

1 instance there were they actually took -- I don't know 2 whose dog it was, but they took their dog. I don't know 3 if they got it back or not, but -- 4 Q: And how do you know -- you say that 5 it was the cadets that did these things. How do you know 6 that, Mr. Cottrelle? 7 A: I believe it was Glen that told me. 8 Q: Did you see the -- 9 A: No, I never seen. 10 Q: And what about -- what I would like 11 to know is what you, personally were involved in with 12 respect to incidents with the military or military 13 police. 14 A: I had witnessed the range patrol. 15 Q: Yes. 16 A: They would drive by with -- on their 17 loudspeakers in their trucks. 18 Q: And the range patrol would drive 19 along the where? 20 A: 21 road, along this area. 21 Q: They would run along -- drive along 22 the road that left from -- ran from the built up area 23 east, on the road parallel to Highway 21? 24 A: Yes. 25 Q: And what would the range patrol do?

1 A: They would just say obscenities 2 through the loudspeaker, just childish stuff. 3 Q: And would they -- did they use their 4 sirens and their spotlights? 5 A: It was more -- more on their 6 loudspeaker. 7 Q: And how often would this -- in the 8 back -- and how often would this take place, that you 9 observed? 10 A: Almost daily. 11 Q: And did -- what if anything -- did 12 this occur as well in 1994 and 1995? 13 A: It was -- as far as I can remember, 14 yes. 15 Q: And what, if anything, did you do in 16 response to the comments of the range patrol? 17 A: Personally myself, I bombed their 18 truck with old fruits, tomatoes and stuff. 19 Q: And by bombing their truck, I take it 20 you mean you threw things at the truck? 21 A: Yes. 22 Q: And so you threw tomatoes and other 23 old fruit at the truck? 24 A: Yes. 25 Q: And did you observe Mr. Dudley George

1 in any interactions with the military, when you were on 2 the camp? 3 A: A couple of times. 4 Q: And can you tell us about that? 5 A: We were just sitting around the 6 trailer and he had seen the range patrol coming down the 7 -- the road and he got all happy about it, jumped up real 8 quick and grabbed his -- his artillery on the back porch 9 where all the rotten fruit and stuff and he bombed them 10 up, threw -- threw a couple of things at his -- at their 11 truck. 12 Q: So, he would throw fruit at the truck 13 from time to time and -- 14 A: Yeah. 15 Q: And when he did this, what would the 16 range patrol do? 17 A: They would just look at us and just 18 keep going. 19 Q: But was this in response to things 20 done by the range patrol? 21 A: Yeah. They knew it too, probably. 22 Q: And did you have any discussions with 23 the range patrol or any of the military? Did you become 24 involved, prior to July 29th, 1995, in any direct 25 discussions with the military?

1 A: No. 2 Q: No? And what about in 1993 or 19 -- 3 with the Ontario Provincial Police? 4 A: No, not that I can remember. 5 Q: Okay. And -- so were you ever told, 6 I take it if you didn't have any discussions with the 7 military, were you ever told by anyone, any military 8 personnel, to leave the Army camp? 9 A: No. 10 Q: And what about the OPP? I think you 11 -- I asked you about 1993. Did you have any involvement 12 or interactions with the Ontario Provincial Police? 13 A: I don't think it was '93. It might 14 have been '94, '95 maybe. 15 Q: Okay. Did you -- in 1994, 1995 you 16 had some involvement with the Ontario Provincial Police? 17 A: Yes, I had burned down a couple of 18 military signs on the beach. 19 Q: And the signs on the beach, can you 20 tell us, pointing to Exhibit 40 that's on the screen. 21 You -- so that the signs were located -- you're pointing 22 to an area on the north end of Matheson Drive as it goes 23 down to the beach. Is that correct? 24 A: Yes. 25 Q: And the military signs were located

1 where? 2 A: They were right along the roadway. 3 Right around the corner there. 4 Q: Just as it goes down to the beach? 5 A: Yeah, as soon as you pull on to the 6 beach, it'd be to -- to my right. 7 Q: So that, Math -- as I understand it, 8 Matheson Drive ends at the beach and carries -- carries 9 on down into the beach? 10 A: It just ends right there on the 11 beach. 12 Q: Yeah, on the beach and on the east 13 side of the beach on the part of the -- back in 19 -- 14 back in 1994/1995, there were signs delineating the Army 15 camp part of the beach? 16 A: Yes. 17 Q: And I take it there were signs on the 18 west side, delineating the Ipperwash Provincial Park 19 beach? 20 A: Yes, I believe so. 21 Q: And -- so the signs that you burned 22 down were on the Army camp side? 23 A: Yes. 24 Q: And -- so tell us what happened. 25 A: Well, there was a couple more, too,

1 along the beach. I think there was, like, two (2), half 2 way down to the reef. 3 Q: And can you point out the reef? 4 A: The reef is here. 5 Q: And the reef is the area that's 6 jutting out into the Lake, on Exhibit P-40? 7 A: And the first set of signs was right 8 about there, I guess. About half way. 9 Q: You're pointing to an area east of 10 Matheson Drive, about half way to the reef? 11 A: Yes. 12 Q: And was -- did this -- did you burn 13 all these signs down at the same time? 14 A: Ah, well, early in the afternoon, 15 we'd knocked the first set of signs with the bus. 16 Q: Yes. 17 A: And the second set we just built a 18 fire around them and just burnt them. 19 Q: And the second set is the one that 20 was on the beach, half way to the reef? 21 A: Yes. 22 Q: And so what happened? 23 A: We set them on fire and went back 24 down to the campsite, down by the reef. I'd gotten 25 something to eat. And I could see -- I looked down again,

1 basically they burning up pretty good. And there was 2 quite a big -- quite a big crowd of people. 3 Q: Around the signs? 4 A: On the Provincial Park side -- 5 Q: Yeah. 6 A: -- of the beach. We went down there. 7 Then the police pulled up and I remember it was a -- a 8 uniform police come over and had asked who had burnt the 9 signs down. I told him that I did. And he said that I 10 was under arrest. 11 And by that time the military police 12 showed up too. 13 Q: And so, what happened then? 14 A: He said I was under arrest and I told 15 him that he'd have to come over and get me. Then the -- 16 the police officer, he tried to grab me by the rest of 17 the way and the military police had jumped in and 18 wrestled me to the ground. 19 Q: And so, you were then -- what then 20 happened? 21 A: I was charged with mischief under 22 five thousand (5,000) and taken to Grand Bend detachment. 23 Q: And that was when you were, if it was 24 '94, you were fifteen (15), or '95, it was sixteen (16), 25 can you remember which?

1 A: Fifteen (15), I believe. 2 Q: Fifteen (15). So, it would be '94? 3 A: Yes. 4 Q: And did they know you were fifteen 5 (15)? 6 A: I believe so. I think I told them my 7 age in the cruiser. 8 Q: Okay. And how long were you at the 9 detachment in Grand Bend? 10 A: The night, I believe. 11 Q: They kept you there overnight? 12 A: Yeah. 13 Q: And then what happened; you were 14 released? 15 A: Yeah. I was released in the morning 16 and I phoned my mother for a ride home. 17 Q: And what happened with the charges? 18 A: I think I just got some community 19 service or something. 20 Q: You were put on probation -- you -- 21 did you pled guilty? 22 A: Or maybe, yeah, maybe a year 23 probation or something. 24 Q: Did you pled guilty? 25 A: I believe so, yeah.

1 Q: Then, was there a -- were you 2 involved, in 1995, in any other incidents with the 3 Ontario Provincial Police? 4 A: No, I don't think so. 5 Q: Did you have -- was there an incident 6 with you and Dale George or Dale Plain, when you ran out 7 of gas? 8 A: Oh, yeah. I believe we were in a 9 car -- 10 Q: Yes. 11 A: -- and that was along this creek, 12 here, at the end of Jericho Road, there's a steel bridge. 13 Q: Yes. 14 A: And we ran out of gas there and 15 started to walk back towards the barracks. And a police 16 -- marked police car had pulled -- pulled up to the end 17 of Jericho Road. 18 Q: So, they were on the out -- you were 19 on the inside of the Army Camp, they were on the outside 20 of the Army Camp? 21 A: Yeah. They were at Jericho and 21. 22 Q: And Jericho and 21 on Exhibit P-40 is 23 where there's a number 615, is that the area -- road 24 you're talking about -- 25 A: Yes.

1 Q: -- is Jericho Road? Yes. And so, 2 this was after you had -- the occupation of the Army Camp 3 in the summer of July -- of 1995? 4 A: Yeah. 5 Q: Of the barracks? 6 A: Yes. 7 Q: And so, what happened? 8 A: We were walking back and we'd seen 9 that -- a cop car pull up. Again, they got on their 10 loudspeaker and were shouting obscenities, calling us 11 wahoos and other stuff like that. 12 Q: And how many police officers were in 13 the cruiser? 14 A: I couldn't tell you, it was kind of 15 far away. 16 Q: Too far away. And so -- 17 A: Yeah. 18 Q: -- were you able to recognize the -- 19 did you recognize the police officers? 20 A: No. Just -- just the car. 21 Q: And how long did they shout 22 obscenities through their -- or call you names through 23 their loudspeaker? 24 A: A minute or so. 25 Q: Pardon me?

1 A: A minute, two (2) minutes; it wasn't 2 too long. 3 Q: And had that happened to you before? 4 A: Just with the range patrol. 5 Q: And I take it that, while you weren't 6 a hunter, that other people hunted on the -- on the Army 7 Camp, after the occupation of the rifle ranges? 8 A: I believe so, yeah. 9 Q: And did you ever participate as a 10 runner or a hound? 11 A: Not during that time. 12 Q: Not during that time? 13 A: No. 14 Q: Aft -- since 1995 have you? 15 A: After '96. 16 Q: After '96...? 17 A: Yes. 18 Q: And a runner and a hound, can you 19 tell us what that involves? 20 A: Well, if -- if we were hunting, say 21 this -- this area here, -- 22 Q: Yes, and you're just pointing to an 23 area parallel -- 24 A: -- probably just like, in general, 25 but.

1 Q: Yes. 2 A: They would put shooters, like, along 3 this ridge here, we'd get dropped off and we'd have to 4 run through the bush this way. 5 Q: And the purpose is for the shooters 6 to be in one side, the runners or hounds on the other 7 side, and they would then -- 8 A: Yeah, chase the deer too. 9 Q: -- chase the deer through the land. 10 A: Yeah. 11 Q: But you did that after 1996? 12 A: Yes. 13 Q: Now, if I could take you up to the 14 summer of 1995, and in particular on July 29th, 1995, did 15 you participate in the occupation of the barracks? 16 A: Yes. 17 Q: And prior to the occupation of the 18 barracks, did you participate in any discussions about 19 the takeover of the barracks? 20 A: No. 21 Q: How did you come to participate in 22 the takeover of the barracks? 23 A: I think there was a meeting going 24 down on the beach, beachfront. 25 Q: Yes?

1 A: Myself, I was having a nap on the bus 2 and I just heard all these people piling on and I had 3 asked what was going on and it was brought to my 4 attention that we were going to move into the barracks. 5 Q: And was that the first that you 6 learned of the intention to move into the barracks? 7 A: Yes. 8 Q: And so, what -- who was on the bus 9 with you? 10 A: The only ones I can remember is me 11 and Harley George. 12 Q: And Harley George is your cousin? 13 A: Yes. 14 Q: And how old was Harley George back in 15 1995? 16 A: Same age as me, -- 17 Q: He was -- 18 A: -- that would be fifteen (15). 19 Q: -- fifteen (15) or sixteen (16)? 20 A: Yeah. 21 Q: And the other people who were on the 22 bus, were they older people, younger people, same age as 23 you? 24 A: Same age as me. There was a few of 25 them that were a little bit younger, a couple years

1 younger. 2 Q: So that, most of the people, it's 3 fair to say, were between eleven (11) and sixteen (16)? 4 A: Yes. Altogether I think there was 5 maybe about six (6) people on the bus. 6 Q: Okay. And what did you -- who was 7 driving the bus? 8 A: Harley. 9 Q: And were there other people on, when 10 you woke up -- and Harley, your cousin Harley George got 11 on the bus -- were there other people outside the bus on 12 the beach? 13 A: I believe so, yes. 14 Q: And so what did you and Harley George 15 do? 16 A: We drove up Army Camp Road. 17 Q: And can you tell us -- can you, using 18 Exhibit P-40, can you point out the route that you 19 followed into the built-up area of the Army Camp? 20 A: Yes. There was -- we come up 21 Matheson Drive. 22 Q: So you went south on Matheson Drive-- 23 A: Yes. 24 Q: -- that runs along the east boundary 25 of Ipperwash Province Park, to the inters -- to the point

1 where Matheson Drive turns and runs west, on the south 2 side of the Provincial Park? 3 A: Yes. And we come up towards Army 4 Camp Road, and past the maintenance shed, and all the way 5 up to the built-up area. 6 Q: And you, at some point, turned off 7 Matheson Drive into the Army Camp; is there a gate or was 8 there a gate back then in 1995, near the end of the road 9 that runs past the maintenance shed, that runs into 10 Matheson Drive, so that you could get onto the Army Camp? 11 A: Yeah, the fence had -- I believe that 12 the only way was, I think it was, like, right here. 13 Because I don't think that fence was cut out, yet. 14 Q: So back in 1995 -- 15 A: It was just an old gate that they had 16 used. 17 Q: So you got onto the Army Camp through 18 the old gate at the south side of -- south end of 19 Matheson Drive? 20 A: Yes. 21 Q: So, you drove on the road parallel to 22 the Matheson Drive, on the inside of the Army Camp? 23 A: Yes. 24 Q: And you followed the road that then 25 turns and leads south, parallel to Army Camp Road?

1 A: Yes. That's this road here. 2 Q: And then, when you got to the built- 3 up area of the Army Camp, the barracks area, what did you 4 do? 5 A: There was a locked gate right out 6 near the old compound here. 7 Q: And the fence that the gate was in 8 still exists today, does it not? 9 A: Yes. 10 Q: And it runs immediately east of -- 11 from the end of the compound where the -- the old cars 12 are stored? 13 A: Yes. 14 Q: So that, there was a locked gate 15 there. What did you do with the -- about the gate? 16 A: We just drove through it and then we 17 proceeded to the parade square. 18 Q: And in front of you is a copy and on 19 the screen is a copy of P-41. So, using P-41, when you - 20 - you drove to the parade square and can you just, using 21 the laser, can you point out where you drove to? 22 A: Yes. We came through the gate, up 23 through here. I believe we drove down past the front 24 gate and we ended up right -- right in here. 25 Q: And you're pointing to an area in

1 front of building number 26, which is the -- 2 A: Northeast -- 3 Q: -- drill hall and rec building? 4 A: Yeah. Northeast corner. 5 Q: In the northeast corner. So, you 6 were just south or southwest of the -- of the drill hall 7 and rec building? 8 A: Yes. 9 Q: Then, when you got to the gate, the 10 locked gate, how did you know it was locked? 11 A: I believe there was a chain around 12 it. 13 Q: Okay. And did you stop and look at 14 it or simply drive through it? 15 A: No, we just drove through it. 16 Q: And were there any other vehicles or 17 people behind or -- the school bus, when you went through 18 the gate? 19 A: No. I believe the rest of the people 20 were coming up through -- through the east side of the 21 Camp, along 21. 22 Q: So that, there were other people that 23 entered -- left the beach area and went through the 24 eastern part of the Camp to the road that runs parallel 25 to Highway 21 and then went west into the built-up area?

1 A: Yes. 2 Q: And so, when you got to the area on 3 the parade square in front of the drill hall and rec 4 centre, what happened? 5 A: We were surrounded by military Jeeps, 6 military police personnel. 7 Q: And how many -- do you recall how 8 many Jeeps and how many military personnel? 9 A: Two (2) -- two (2) or three (3) 10 Jeeps, I believe, and maybe six (6) -- six (6) MP's, five 11 (5) or six (6) MP's. 12 Q: And what then happened? 13 A: This one (1) fellow, he had jumped on 14 the bus, a military police. He had a crowd control size 15 bottle of pepper spray. 16 Q: Yes. 17 A: And he immediately started to pepper- 18 spray Harley. 19 Q: Yes. And then what happened? 20 A: Well, Harley jumped up and started 21 swinging at him. I think he tagged him a couple times 22 and backed him up out of the bus. I jumped out the back 23 door and circled around to the front. By that time 24 pretty much everybody was cleared off the bus. 25 He tried to start spraying everybody that

1 was on the bus, with the pepper spray, but he was 2 spraying upward and it just came back on him. He -- he 3 couldn't see. 4 Q: So that, they -- the military police 5 officer who was spraying with this pepper spray, sprayed 6 Harley and he was -- was spraying others, but it came 7 back on him? 8 A: Yes. 9 Q: Then what happened? 10 A: Another -- I think it was another 11 Jeep, it might have been their boss or whatever, he 12 pulled up and grabbed the guy and he just told everybody 13 to get back, and they left. 14 Q: And what did you do -- what did you 15 and Harley do and the others who were on the bus? 16 A: We just, were standing around there, 17 then I think everybody else pulled up, my other cousins, 18 Glenn, Marlin; I can't really remember who was all there 19 but it's kind of the meeting place. 20 Q: So, other cars pulled up on the 21 parade square when you were there? 22 A: Yes. 23 Q: And what did you do with the bus? 24 A: We just -- we just parked it there. 25 I can't remember if we -- if we moved it -- like, moved

1 it elsewhere. 2 Q: And when you were -- were on the bus 3 with Harley, did you run through the drill hall doors? 4 A: No, not that I can remember. 5 Q: And did you hit any military 6 vehicles? 7 A: No. 8 Q: And so the -- the bus is parked on 9 the parade square, you've had this incident with the 10 military police, the other -- your cousins, including 11 Glen George, arrived; then what happened? 12 A: We were pretty much just standing 13 around talking, and I can't remember how -- what the time 14 frame was but we'd be -- I don't know what you would call 15 him, he was kind of running the show up there, in the 16 built-up area, he had come over and explained to us that 17 he had very little stuff in the barracks, they were going 18 to pack up what they had there and they were going to be 19 leaving. 20 Q: And this was a senior military 21 officer or did you know who he was? 22 A: Yeah, I'd imagine so. I don't -- 23 Q: You didn't know who he was at the 24 time? 25 A: No.

1 Q: And when you went into the built-up 2 area, did you or anyone else on the bus have any 3 firearms? 4 A: No. 5 Q: And did you see anyone of the 6 occupiers, on September 6th, 1995 -- excuse me, on July 7 29th, 1995, at the parade square, with any firearms? 8 A: No. 9 Q: And did the military police officers 10 who came up and surrounded the bus, did they have 11 firearms? 12 A: Not that I seen. 13 Q: Did -- okay. And so what happened? 14 The commander said that -- or the officer said that they 15 were going to leave; and then what happened? 16 A: I believe we went to the kitchen for 17 a meal. They had -- maybe building -- building 18. 18 Q: Building 18 on the -- 19 A: What is it? P-41. 20 Q: And building 18 is the building that 21 you're pointing out with the laser -- 22 A: Yes. 23 Q: -- it's to the northwest -- well, 24 that would be southwest of the building 26, the drill 25 hall?

1 A: Yeah. I believe it was the only 2 kitchen operational, they he had left it fully stocked 3 with the freezer and the fridge so we went over and had a 4 big cook-out. 5 Q: And how many people -- do you recall 6 how many people there were on the Army Camp, the 7 occupiers, on the evening of July 29th, 1995? 8 A: Twenty (20), thirty (30), maybe. 9 Q: And what was the mood of the 10 occupiers? 11 A: Good feelings. Everybody felt good 12 about it. 13 Q: And did they -- what were your -- 14 after the military -- I take it the military -- did the 15 military leave that day, later that day? 16 A: I believe so, yes. 17 Q: And did they return at some point, 18 that you were aware of? 19 A: Yes. I believe it was maybe a couple 20 weeks later or a week later, they had brought their 21 maintenance guys down. They had shown -- Dudley was one 22 (1) of them, Joe (phonetic) George -- how to take care of 23 the Camp with respect to the boilers, what to check for 24 in the kitchens, water, the water plant. 25 Q: So that the occupiers could look

1 after and operate the -- the utilities that -- 2 A: Yes. 3 Q: -- were required for the Army Camp? 4 A: Yes. 5 Q: And in the -- after the initial 6 occupation of the barracks in July 19 -- 29th, 1995, did 7 you observe any increased police activity, in or around 8 the Army Camp? 9 A: Not that I noticed. 10 Q: And in the August -- after the 11 occupation in -- of the built-up area on July 29th, 1995, 12 I take it people moved into various buildings in the 13 built-up area? 14 A: Yes. 15 Q: And did you move into the built-up 16 area? 17 A: Yeah. I was mostly staying at my 18 father's. 19 Q: And your father came in, not 20 immediately but he came in, I think he said a couple of 21 weeks after July 29th, moved in? 22 A: I believe so, yes. 23 Q: And can you tell us where you -- 24 where you stayed when you were with your father? 25 A: 37.

1 Q: And building 37 is along the -- it's 2 immediately north of Highway 21? 3 A: Yes. It's this one right here. 4 Q: Thank you. And prior to your -- your 5 father moving in, where did you stay? 6 A: Like, I had -- 7 Q: Did you have a point or did you go 8 back and forth? 9 A: Just kind of all over, I guess. 10 Q: Okay. And in August of 1995, were 11 you aware or did you observe any people, in the Army -- 12 built-up area of the Army Camp, with hunting rifles? 13 A: No. 14 Q: And did you know if any of the people 15 in the built-up area had hunting rifles? 16 A: No. 17 Q: Some of the people there were, you 18 knew, hunters? 19 A: Yes. 20 Q: And in the -- the summer of 1995, in 21 August of 1995, were you involved in a -- or observe an 22 incident with yourself and Kevin Simon at Ipperwash Park? 23 A: Yeah. Actually, we had walked over 24 to the store. 25 Q: The store in the Provincial Park?

1 A: Yes. I think to grab some pop, ice 2 cream or something. We were sitting outside and this OPP 3 cruiser pulled up and told Kevin that he was under 4 arrest. But they thought that he must have been somebody 5 else because I don't think they said that -- his name. 6 And he had told them that he wasn't going 7 to go with them. They wrestled around a little bit and 8 eventually Kevin got away from the first -- the initial 9 contact, I guess. 10 Q: And so you were on a park bench 11 outside the -- 12 A: A picnic table. 13 Q: -- picnic table outside the Park 14 store? 15 A: Yes. 16 Q: An, so, you observed the -- Kevin 17 Simon running away? 18 A: Yes. 19 Q: Did you see Kevin Simon again? 20 A: Just when he was in the back of the 21 cruiser, coming back up the Park road. 22 Q: So, Kevin Simon ran east -- 23 A: I don't know how far he got away 24 but -- 25 Q: But he went east into the Provincial

1 Park? 2 A: Yes. 3 Q: And then you saw him coming back in a 4 cruiser? 5 A: Yeah, so. 6 Q: And did you have any discussions with 7 the OPP at that time? 8 A: No. They -- they didn't even pay any 9 attention to me. 10 Q: And turning now to the Provincial 11 Park and prior to September 4th, 1995, had you had any 12 discussions with anyone about the Provincial Park and did 13 you learn anything about the Provincial Park, from 14 anyone? 15 A: I knew it was a piece of the land, of 16 the territory. 17 Q: You knew that it was a piece of land 18 that was part of the Stoney Point land? 19 A: Yes. 20 Q: And who did you learn that from? 21 A: My grandfather. 22 Q: And that's Abraham George? 23 A: Yes. 24 Q: And did your grandfather tell you 25 anything else about the land, the Park?

1 A: He had said that there was burial 2 grounds along the maintenance shed road. 3 Q: And that's the road that, on Exhibit 4 P-40, runs just -- you're pointing it out there -- 5 A: Yeah. 6 Q: -- it's, on the map P-40, runs from 7 Matherson Drive, which is along the southern border of 8 the Provincial Park, about a quarter (1/4) of the way 9 east of Army Camp Road and goes up to the main east-west 10 road inside the Park; is that correct? 11 A: Yes. 12 Q: And ultimately ends near the existing 13 reservoir and pump house? 14 A: Yes. 15 Q: And so, what did your grandfather 16 tell you about that? 17 A: Just said along that ridge there, 18 there was burial sites there. He had talked about them 19 having picnics down there when he was a kid. I guess he 20 used to clean the tables off and stuff for -- I forget, I 21 think he said a nickel or something -- he would clean up 22 after the picnics they had down there. 23 Q: There were picnics down -- 24 A: When -- 25 Q: -- when it was a provincial park or

1 before it was a provincial park? 2 A: Ah, way -- no, way before. He was 3 just a kid then. 4 Q: Oh, when he was a kid. 5 A: Yeah. 6 Q: Yes. 7 A: And really didn't say too much more 8 that I can remember. 9 Q: And they -- now, that road, what's 10 happened to that road that ran north from the maintenance 11 area? 12 A: We blocked it off. 13 Q: And it's -- today it's overgrown? 14 A: Pretty much, yeah. 15 Q: And why did you block -- why was it 16 blocked off? 17 A: Just, he had asked us to block it off 18 just because of the fact that I believe that the road 19 actually goes over some grave sites; it's pretty -- kind 20 of disrespectful. 21 Q: And that was your grandfather -- 22 A: Yes. 23 Q: -- asked the -- the group to do that? 24 A: Yes. 25 Q: And the -- prior to September 4th,

1 1995, did you participate in any discussions about the 2 Provincial Park, with the occupiers of the Army Camp? 3 A: No. 4 Q: And how did you learn about the 5 intention or how did you learn about the occupation of 6 the Provincial Park? 7 A: I believe I was -- I'm not too sure 8 if they had a meeting on the waterfront or not, it was 9 just -- I was just made aware that we were going to go in 10 there. 11 Q: Okay. And who made you aware? 12 A: I believe it was -- it was my father 13 I was talking to. 14 Q: And can you tell us what happened on 15 the afternoon of September 4th, prior to the occupation 16 of the Park? 17 A: Myself, I was along the waterfront 18 and somebody had came down, I can't remember who it was, 19 and they said that they had my father and my uncle Stuart 20 surrounded at the end of Matherson Drive. 21 Q: And at the end of -- on the north end 22 of Matheson Drive, just by the beach? 23 A: Yes. 24 Q: Yes? 25 A: I went down there and -- and, I

1 believe he had his -- he had a Trans-Am, it was, like, an 2 '80 or something. And there was approximately four (4) 3 or five (5) police cruisers and maybe eight (8) or -- 4 eight (8) or so uniformed police officers. And there was 5 -- I think there was two (2) undercover's on the 6 Provincial Park side of the beach. 7 Q: And you say there were two (2) 8 undercover's on the Provincial Park side of the beach; 9 how do you know -- why do you say there were two (2) 10 undercover's on the Park side of the beach? 11 A: They were sitting near the -- well, 12 at first they appeared like they were two (2) families. 13 And I believe Stuart opened the door and hit the cruiser. 14 So they were going to arrest him for mischief or 15 something. 16 And the one (1) uniformed police officer 17 looked over and waived -- waived those two (2) guys over. 18 And they come running over and they knew all -- all the 19 cop lingo, police, how they talk and stuff, so. 20 Q: So, a uniformed police officer waived 21 to two (2) people on the Park side -- the beach on the 22 Park side, and the two (2) people came over and they -- 23 you assumed they were undercover because they knew the 24 police officers? 25 A: Yeah. They knew all the talk and

1 what they should do, so. 2 Q: And so, then what happened? 3 A: Then my cousin Dave showed up, Dave 4 George. And I believe my father told him to cut the 5 trees down on Matheson Drive. 6 Q: And yes, what else do you recall? 7 A: They just kind of looked around and 8 Dave took off and shortly after the police left. 9 Q: And after that, how long after that 10 incident did the occupation of the Park take place; do 11 you recall? 12 A: An hour and half (1 1/2), maybe, two 13 (2) hours. 14 Q: Okay. And what happened with the 15 occupation of the Park; what did you do? 16 A: We had met right at the end of this 17 paved road, where it meets up with Matheson Drive. 18 Q: And you're pointing to the road that 19 runs east-west or west-east inside the Park from Army 20 Camp Road, over to the Matheson Drive? 21 A: Yes. 22 Q: And you say "we met", how did you 23 come to meet at the road that ends at Matheson Drive? 24 A: Well myself, I can just remember 25 coming back up from the beach camp and that's kind of

1 where everybody was gathered. 2 Q: Okay, but, how did you know to come 3 up from the beach? What I'm getting at, Mr. Cottrelle, 4 is how did you know that it -- to come up at the time -- 5 that people -- at this point in time, to go into the 6 Park? Did somebody tell you to do that? Did you -- 7 A: No, I can't -- I can't really 8 remember. 9 Q: So, at any rate, you were on the 10 beach and you went up to the Park entrance on the east 11 side. Who else was with you? 12 A: Myself, my father, Carolyn (phonetic) 13 George, she was -- I believe she was there again, she 14 went through the main entrance. 15 Q: And by the main entrance, you're 16 referring to the entrance -- 17 A: In the Park, along the Army Camp 18 Road. 19 Q: Okay. But what I'm asking about is, 20 at the initial entry into the Park, to tell me as much as 21 you can recall. You've met with some people at the end of 22 Matheson Drive -- 23 A: Yes. 24 Q: -- and the road that leads into 25 Matheson Drive. Was there -- was there a fence there?

1 A: Yeah. There was a -- it was kind of 2 like a double fence. It was chained and locked. 3 Q: And on the inside of the fence, was 4 there anything blocking the gate? 5 A: There used to be cement blocks 6 blocking the entrances but the MNR had moved them. 7 Q: And when you say there used to be 8 cement blocks blocking the entrance, can you describe 9 those cement blocks? 10 A: They were approximately four (4) by 11 five (5) by maybe three (3) feet. They were pretty big 12 blocks. 13 Q: And during the summer were the blocks 14 blocking that gate? 15 A: Yes. 16 Q: And I take it that gate, during the 17 summer and the camping season, wasn't used? 18 A: No. 19 Q: And was it normal, from your 20 experience, for the MNR to move the blocks at the end of 21 the camping season? 22 A: No. 23 Q: No? 24 A: I -- I wouldn't see why they would 25 move them.

1 Q: But had you noticed them being moved 2 or had you even observed these blocks -- 3 A: I knew they were there all summer. 4 It just -- it seemed kind of weird that they had moved 5 them during that time period. 6 Q: But had you observed those blocks in 7 1994 and 1993? 8 A: Yes. 9 Q: And but, had -- did you observe those 10 blocks being moved in the fall? 11 A: No. No. 12 Q: So, the blocks were moved, were not 13 there. And so, what did -- what happened? What did you 14 do? 15 A: Well, when we were there we were met 16 by -- I think there was, like, two (2) OPP cruisers and 17 maybe one (1) or two (2) MNR vehicles. I think the 18 reason why I went down to the beach, I think I grabbed 19 the bolt cutters, I'd cut the lock and the chains on the 20 Park gate and we just opened it up and went in. 21 Q: And how many people were with you 22 when you went in? 23 A: I can't really remember. 24 Q: And I think your father testified 25 that he wasn't there, he came later; do you re -- is that

1 your recollection or -- 2 A: I'm not too sure. 3 Q: Do you recall who else was with you? 4 A: No. 5 Q: And did you have any conversations 6 with the police officers? 7 A: No. They were pretty much there, 8 just watching. 9 Q: And did you have any conversations 10 with -- were there people from the Ministry of Natural 11 Resources there? 12 A: Yeah. Nothing was said that I can 13 remember. 14 Q: And did you recognize any of the 15 people from the Ministry of Natural Resources? 16 A: No. 17 Q: And how many people from the Ministry 18 of Natural Resources were there? 19 A: There was two (2) cars, maybe three 20 (3) or four (4) guys. 21 Q: And so, you're inside the park, what 22 happened then? 23 A: We just proceeded on. I laid a 24 little bit of tobacco down myself. 25 Q: I missed that.

1 A: I laid some tobacco down. 2 Q: Yes. 3 A: I think eventually we ended up at -- 4 by the water treatment plant there. 5 Q: Yes. 6 A: And the MNR, they were at the 7 maintenance shed and I can't remember how long after 8 though, but all the keys were handed over. 9 Q: Were you present when the keys were 10 handed over? 11 A: No. 12 Q: So, you learned later that keys were 13 provided -- 14 A: Yes. 15 Q: And you said that you laid down some 16 tobacco; and why did you do that, Mr. Cottrelle? 17 A: Well, I just asked the Creator that 18 he look over -- watch over all of us. 19 Q: And so, what did you do after you 20 entered the Park? You were over by the pump house, the 21 reservoir; what did you do? 22 A: Myself, I kind of just cruised around 23 for a little while, checking things out. 24 Q: And when you say you cruised around, 25 did you do it in a vehicle or walk around?

1 A: Yes. I had I believe it was, like, 2 '80, '81 Malibu. 3 Q: And was that a -- can you tell us 4 what colour was it? Is it a blue Malibu with flames on 5 it? 6 A: Yes. Tinted windows. 7 Q: Okay. And -- okay. And then what 8 did you do? 9 A: I don't know, it was kind of, really 10 uneventful, from what I can remember. We might have 11 started a couple fires, a fire somewhere, maybe. 12 Q: Yes. 13 A: Other than that, there, I believe -- 14 I can't remember anything that really happened; just 15 people hanging out. 16 Q: And were there campers, at this point 17 in time, still in the Park? 18 A: No. Everybody had left by then. 19 Q: And did something -- what about the - 20 - the -- were there police officers in the Park? 21 A: They might have been at the 22 maintenance shed. 23 Q: Yes. 24 A: But from -- as long as, like, as far 25 as the waterfront, I don't remember seeing any.

1 Q: And were you present when there was a 2 incident between your father and the OPP, later on 3 September 4th? 4 A: Yeah. That was, geez, 9:30, it was 5 already dark by then. 6 Q: And can you tell us what happened? 7 A: Well, later on that evening, they 8 were along the main entrance there, I believe they call 9 it the kiosk or something. 10 Q: The -- and you're referring to the 11 main entrance. It's not really shown on the -- on 12 Exhibit P-40, but the entrance off -- the entrance off 13 Army Camp Road runs into the Park south of the -- what -- 14 the Park store, and there was a gatehouse or kiosks 15 there -- 16 A: Yeah. 17 Q: -- that campers went by when they 18 went into the Park; is that correct? 19 A: Yes. 20 Q: And at the time do you recall -- I 21 think it was a brown building? 22 A: Yeah, it was. 23 Q: A small brown building? 24 A: Yeah. 25 Q: And so, the police cruisers were near

1 the kiosk by the main entrance? 2 A: Yes. And I believe their cars were 3 facing Army Camp Road. 4 Q: Yes. And how many cars or -- do you 5 recall? 6 A: There were five (5) or six (6). 7 Q: And so, tell us what happened; what 8 did you observe? 9 A: Everybody was kind of standing 10 around. There was, well, people I was standing around 11 with, was Dave George, Wes, everybody was -- we were kind 12 of in a circle towards the Park store and the rest of the 13 police and MNR, they were more towards their cruisers. 14 Q: Out by the main entrance? 15 A: Yes. 16 Q: And so, your group was by the Park 17 store. What were you doing? Just standing around there? 18 A: Yeah. We were just kind of standing 19 around the fire. And we were wondering when they were 20 going to take off. 21 Q: And you were wondering when the OPP 22 would take off? 23 A: Yeah. And the MNR, they were going 24 to leave. 25 Q: Hmm hmm.

1 A: So, I heard my father's car cruise 2 up. He was with my mother. And I'd walked over and told 3 him that the cops weren't going to leave. He jumped out, 4 proceeded to walk towards them and I went and got some of 5 the guys. 6 Q: So, your father jumped out of his car 7 and walked towards the police officers -- 8 A: Yeah. 9 Q: -- and the MNR people? 10 A: Yes. 11 Q: And you went and got some other 12 people from the Park store? 13 A: Yes. 14 Q: And then what happened? 15 A: I went and got them and we followed 16 behind my father. I believe we walked over to George 17 Speck's car. 18 Q: And were you familiar with Mr. Speck? 19 A: A little bit. 20 Q: You had had dealings with him? 21 A: Not personally. 22 Q: But was he from the force, the OPP 23 detachment? 24 A: Yes. 25 Q: And yes, then what happened?

1 A: From what I can remember, he was 2 talking to George about something and he had told the 3 rest of the OPP that were around the area, including 4 George Speck, that they should get the 'f' out of there. 5 And I think that's when he busted the back 6 window -- 7 Q: And -- 8 A: -- on the cruiser. 9 Q: -- do you recall what he broke the 10 back window with? 11 A: I believe it was, like, a walking 12 stick or something. 13 Q: Okay. Then what happened? 14 A: Then the cops just piled in their 15 cars and they took off, MNR included. 16 Q: Okay. And what did you do after 17 that? 18 A: I just went back to the fire, I 19 believe. 20 Q: And where did you stay that night? 21 A: I can't remember if I stayed, fell 22 asleep down there or if I went back up to the barracks. 23 Q: And do you recall any firecrackers in 24 the Park that evening? 25 A: I think there were, like, flares,

1 like a strobe light flare. 2 Q: Can you describe that? Is that a 3 flare, a big, long flare that -- 4 A: No. They're just -- they're about as 5 big as a quarter with a wick on them. 6 Q: Yes. 7 A: I think Wes -- Wes had them. 8 Q: And Wes is your cousin Wesley George? 9 A: Yes. And he was just lighting them 10 and throwing them into the circle of the police officers. 11 Q: And you observed that? 12 A: Yes. 13 Q: And did you hear any other 14 firecrackers? 15 A: No. I think he just had those strobe 16 lights. 17 Q: And on the evening of September 4th, 18 did you observe any firearms in the Park, in the hands of 19 the occupiers? 20 A: No. 21 Q: And the -- so, you stayed in the Park 22 or you -- you can't recall if you stayed in the Park the 23 evening of September 4th or went back to the barracks. 24 Can you tell me, did you hear any firearms, gunshots or 25 what sounded like gunshots, during the night of September

1 4th-September 5th? 2 A: No. 3 Q: And the -- on September 5th what did 4 you do? 5 A: I believe I woke up and that I got 6 something to eat and went back down towards -- went 7 towards the Park, back down to the Park. 8 Q: And there are video clips of a blue 9 car with flames racing around the Park near the -- the 10 sandy parking lot that's on the west -- to the west of 11 the Park store. 12 And did you drive your car down to -- by 13 the Park store? 14 A: Yes. That was probably me. 15 Q: And were you racing around in your 16 car? 17 A: Yeah. 18 Q: And why were you doing that? 19 A: Something to do, I guess. There is 20 really no reason behind it. 21 Q: And so you went down to the Park. 22 Did you spend most of the day in the Park on September 23 5th? Can you tell us what tell us what you remember? I 24 know it's a long time ago, and only lawyers ask you what 25 happened nine (9) years ago, but --

1 A: Yeah. 2 Q: -- tell us as much as you can 3 remember what happened on September 5th. 4 A: Honest, I really can't remember too 5 much. Everything was pretty much uneventful. Just 6 people sitting around, having picnics around the Park 7 store. There was always people coming and going, 8 dropping food donations off, hamburgers, hotdogs, stuff 9 like that, lunch meat. 10 Q: Yes. 11 A: But I can't remember if that was that 12 day that all the reporters and stuff, there, showed up 13 and kind of noticed there was more police buildup during 14 that day. 15 Q: Okay. And did you -- when you say 16 there was more police buildup, what did you -- what do 17 you mean by that, Mr. Cottrelle? 18 A: Just driving by the sandy parking 19 lot, I don't know if it was that day or the next, then 20 the police boat showed up. 21 Q: Yes. And could you observe the 22 police boat? 23 A: Yes. It was just off of the water 24 treatment plant, down the point, there. 25 Q: So that the water treatment plant is

1 just to the south -- 2 A: Right in there. And the police boat 3 maybe would have been not too far out, enough where I 4 could see that the police decals on the side. 5 Q: So you could see that -- you could 6 observe that the boat had the police on the side of it? 7 A: Yes. 8 Q: And it was off the beach of the -- 9 A: Yeah. 10 Q: -- Provincial Park, north in Lake 11 Huron? 12 A: Yeah. Northwest, there. 13 Q: Northwest? 14 A: Yeah. 15 Q: And the police officers, did you 16 observe any checkpoints on September 5th, on Army Camp 17 Road? 18 A: Not -- not that I can remember. 19 Q: Okay. And what else -- can you 20 recall anything else that happened on September 5th? 21 A: I'm not too sure if that was the day 22 that the helicopter circled above the Park store. 23 Q: But tell us about the helicopter on 24 either September 5th or September 6th, there was a 25 helicopter that came to the Park?

1 A: Yeah. I -- I believe it was on the 2 5th. We were sitting around, having lunch, and we can 3 hear this helicopter off in the distance. And eventually 4 it was pretty much right over the heads of everybody. 5 Q: Yes. 6 A: Tree top level, it just blew 7 everything all around. 8 Q: And what happened? Did you observe - 9 - how -- anyone in the helicopter? 10 A: Just the one (1) guy, there, he was 11 hanging out the side, he had a video camera. 12 Q: And do you recall the colour of the 13 helicopter? 14 A: I believe it was red -- 15 Q: Red? 16 A: -- orange. 17 Q: Pardon me? 18 A: Red or orange, I believe. 19 Q: And how long did the helicopter stay 20 in the area by the Park store? 21 A: Four (4), five (5) minutes maybe. 22 Q: Okay. And the -- then it left? 23 A: Yes. 24 Q: And -- 25 A: It went over the maintenance --

1 maintenance building area. 2 Q: Okay. And did you observe the 3 helicopter at any other time? 4 A: Not that I can remember, no. 5 Q: And on the 5th or on the 6th, do you 6 recall anything else -- on the 5th, excuse me, do you 7 recall anything else happening? 8 A: I'm not sure-- we barricaded all of 9 the entrances, gates and stuff. 10 Q: And the -- you barricaded the 11 entrances and gates, are you referring to the gate just 12 to the west of the park store? 13 A: Yeah, by the Sandy parking lot there. 14 Q: Now, it's part of -- 15 A: Oh, yeah, okay, right here. The main 16 entrance and Matheson Drive. 17 Q: So that there was a -- and why did 18 you barricade the entrance by the Sandy parking lot, the 19 main entrance and Matheson Drive? 20 A: Just to lock everything down, block 21 all entrances. 22 Q: And why were you doing that? 23 A: Just to keep people out. 24 Q: Okay. And did you, on September 5th, 25 observe any Provincial Police Officers, or anyone from

1 the MNR, along the fence line? 2 A: I can't remember. It was either the 3 5th or the 6th -- 4 Q: Yes. 5 A: I believe it was the 5th though, 6 because people were talking about a Court injunction, and 7 I pulled up at the park store and there was a news lady 8 from CBC, and I just -- the Kobayashi for the MNR. And 9 he was there and I believe it was Mark Wright. 10 Q: And where were they? 11 A: They were along the fence line, right 12 near the turn -- turn style. 13 Q: The turn style? 14 A: Yeah. 15 Q: And the gate and the turn style are 16 on the south end of the -- of the parking lot that runs 17 in front of the park store, is that correct? 18 A: Yes. 19 Q: And it's on the south end of the 20 Sandy parking lot, running from Army Camp Road, the 21 intersection of Army Camp Road and East Parkway down to - 22 - up north to the lake? 23 A: Yes. 24 Q: So, did you -- were you -- did you 25 know who Mr. Kobayashi was?

1 A: Yeah, I seen him on the news earlier. 2 Q: You had seen him on the news? 3 A: Yeah. 4 Q: And so Mr. Kobayashi was along the 5 fence line and you said more PP Officers, Mark Wright -- 6 A: Yeah. 7 Q: -- how would you -- how did you know 8 it was Mark Wright? 9 A: I believe he was on the news doing a 10 press release or something too, earlier. 11 Q: So you had recognized him from the 12 television? 13 A: Yes. 14 Q: And there was a television reporter 15 there as well? 16 A: Yeah, she was with CBC Radio, I 17 believe. 18 Q: Oh, it was a radio reporter? 19 A: Yeah. 20 Q: How do you know that the person was 21 with CBC? 22 A: I believe I talked -- talked with her 23 very briefly -- 24 Q: Okay. 25 A: -- I asked her where she was from.

1 Q: So, what happened? 2 A: I pulled up in my car, and they were 3 two/three (2/3) feet away, I could pull up that close to 4 the fence. Kobayashi wasn't saying too much, it was more 5 Mark Wright that was doing all the talking. He'd asked 6 me who the leader was in the camp, in the Park, and I had 7 told him that there was no leader. 8 He said -- he kept asking if there's 9 anybody that he could talk to? And I said, probably not, 10 they're -- probably nobody he could really talk to. 11 And then he asked if I could just pass 12 that message on to everybody, and I said, yeah. And fair 13 enough, and I took off. 14 Q: And I anticipate that we will hear 15 evidence from Mark Wright, that you told him that we were 16 going to do our talking with guns. 17 Did you say that to Mr. Wright? 18 A: No. 19 Q: And did you say that to any officer 20 along -- when you were in the Park? 21 A: No. 22 Q: And the -- on September the 5th, were 23 your sisters in the Park? 24 A: They were there pretty much the whole 25 time.

1 Q: And -- 2 A: It was -- there was a checkpoint done 3 right by the Sandy parking lot there, on Army Camp Road, 4 I think it turns into East Parkway drive, I believe. 5 Q: And there's -- on there -- behind you 6 there's a -- a drawing of the intersection of East 7 Parkway Drive and Army Camp Road that's been marked 8 earlier, as Exhibit P-123, and the -- when you say 9 checkpoint, what do you refer to? 10 A: There was just a marked OPP cruiser, 11 and there was at least two (2) guys there, they had 12 tactical coveralls on, the grey -- grey coveralls, black 13 bulletproof vests and black hat. 14 Q: And they were -- when did they -- 15 when did you observe that car first parked at the 16 intersection? 17 A: I believe it was the 5th maybe, or 18 that morning, somewhere in there. I can't really 19 remember. 20 Q: Okay. And where was it parked? 21 A: It'd be right in that area. 22 Q: And you're pointing to an area just 23 at the curve of -- at -- at the curve to the west of the 24 Sandy parking lot? 25 A: Yes.

1 MR. DERRY MILLAR: Perhaps we could mark 2 that the next exhibit, it would be Exhibit 125. 3 THE REGISTRAR: P-125, Your Honour. 4 COMMISSIONER SIDNEY LINDEN: P-125. 5 6 --- EXHIBIT NO. P-125: "Stan" Thompson Drawing, 7 September 20/95,marked by 8 Witness Nicholas Cottrelle, 9 Jan 18/05 10 11 CONTINUED BY MR. DERRY MILLAR: 12 Q: And could you just mark, there's a 13 black marker, Mr. Cottrelle, on the desk in front of you, 14 would you just mark on Exhibit 125, where the Police 15 Cruiser was parked on September 5th. And could you put a 16 1 beside it, sir. 17 And how -- how long do you recall the -- 18 the car being there, or cars being there? 19 A: A couple hours at a time, I believe. 20 Q: Okay. And so what happened, did you 21 observe anything with respect to the -- the car? 22 A: My sisters, they had taken mirrors 23 out of the -- one (1) of the Park washrooms. 24 Q: Yes. 25 A: And they were reflecting the sunlight

1 onto the cars, on the cruisers. 2 Q: From -- and they -- and where were 3 your sisters, inside the Park? 4 A: Yeah, they'd be along the first 5 treeline. 6 Q: And the first treeline on Exhibit P- 7 125 can be seen, there's the trees that are marked, 8 there's the turnstile and then the gate, is that correct? 9 A: Yes. 10 Q: And that fence ends at a -- there's a 11 bank of sand at the -- there's a little hill at the south 12 end of where the fence ends? 13 A: Yes. 14 Q: And -- or the gate ends. So, how -- 15 your sisters -- which sisters were you referring to? 16 A: I believe it was my three (3) younger 17 sisters. 18 Q: And that would be? 19 A: Mel, Amanda and Stephanie. 20 Q: And in 1995, how old was Mel? 21 A: Mel would have been twelve (12). 22 Q: And Amanda? 23 A: Ten (10). And my youngest sister 24 would have been eight (8). 25 Q: Eight (8).

1 A: Maybe seven (7), somewhere in there. 2 Q: So they were shining sun onto the 3 police cruiser during the -- during the afternoon of 4 September 5th? 5 A: Yeah. 6 Q: Okay. Now, the -- in the evening of 7 September 5th, 1995, were you involved in taking picnic 8 tables out into the sandy parking lot? 9 A: Yes, I was. 10 Q: And can you tell us what happened? 11 What did you do? 12 A: We were just moving all these old -- 13 kind of like the old beat up picnic tables out to -- it'd 14 be right in this area here, because I think we had a fire 15 going here somewhere. 16 Q: So you're referring on Exhibit P-125, 17 to the area just west of the gate into the Park, and the 18 turnstile? 19 A: Yeah. 20 Q: Yes. You had the fire and you were 21 moving the picnic tables out there? 22 A: Yes. 23 Q: And what were you doing with the 24 picnic tables? 25 A: I believe we were going to try to

1 block this off a little bit. 2 Q: And when you say block this off, 3 you're referring to the -- the -- 4 A: The access to the beach. 5 Q: -- the access to the beach and the 6 sandy parking lot? 7 A: Yeah. Well, right in this area here, 8 so -- 9 Q: In the centre? 10 A: Yeah. 11 Q: And on that map it's -- I think it 12 says sand covered park -- park -- parking lot -- 13 A: Yeah. 14 Q: -- and it's that area? 15 A: Yeah. It's pretty narrow. 16 Q: And so why were you trying to block 17 off the access to the beach? 18 A: We, more or less, kind of, I don't 19 know, just, kind of, get, like, a -- a little barricade 20 around the fire there -- the gate to the Park. We start 21 moving the tables out there and all these OPP cruisers 22 showed up they had, like, the ram bars on front and they 23 start hitting all of -- all of the tables. 24 Q: So, let's just go step by step. The 25 -- you started to move picnic tables out into the eastern

1 part of the Sandy Parking Lot just east of where is says 2 "Sand Covered Parking Lot" -- 3 A: Yeah. 4 Q: -- on Exhibit P125? And how many 5 picnic tables were in the Sandy Parking Lot when the 6 police cruisers arrived? 7 A: I'd say maybe nine (9). 8 Q: And how were they set up? Were they 9 set up blocking the whole parking lot or you said they 10 were around the fire? 11 A: No, they were just -- they were just, 12 initially, just getting moved. They were just, kind of, 13 scattered. 14 Q: Okay. And did you know what the plan 15 was -- 16 A: No. 17 Q: -- or was it -- you don't know what 18 the plan was to what to do with them after you got them 19 there? 20 A: Yeah. We were just kind of moving 21 them. 22 Q: So, how many cruisers arrived? 23 A: I believe there was four (4) or five 24 (5). 25 Q: And what did the cruisers do?

1 A: They start ramming the picnic tables. 2 3 Q: And when you say "they started 4 ramming the picnic tables" the -- how fast was the 5 cruiser -- were the cruisers going? 6 A: Well, they had a -- they probably had 7 a run at it from the paved road because they kind of 8 lined up here at the paved road. So that's got to be, I 9 don't know, maybe or thirty (30) or forty (40) feet 10 maybe. 11 They had a run at it. I can't say how 12 fast they were going. 13 Q: And -- 14 A: They were busting tables though, and 15 that, they were hitting them. 16 Q: And so where were they pushing the 17 tables, the police? 18 A: Right against the fence. 19 Q: They were pushing them towards the 20 fence? 21 A: Yes. 22 Q: And where were you when the police 23 cars arrived? 24 A: Right next to the turnstile. Myself 25 and Stewart George were moving a table --

1 Q: Yes. 2 A: -- and the cruiser actually hit it 3 when we were still holding it. I believe I jumped out of 4 the way. I almost got run over. 5 Q: And the -- what happened, the 6 cruisers pushed the -- the picnic tables against the 7 fence; what, if anything, did the Occupiers do? 8 A: We started throwing rocks at their 9 cars. 10 Q: Yes. And how long did this incident 11 take place? 12 A: It wasn't too long. Five (5) -- five 13 (5) minutes. Maybe a little bit more. 14 Q: And after the police officers left 15 were the picnic tables moved back out into the Sandy 16 Parking Lot? 17 A: No, we left them there. 18 Q: Pardon me? 19 A: We left them there backed against the 20 fence there. 21 Q: And did you have any other 22 interactions with the Ontario Provincial Police officers 23 on September 5th or September 6th before the incident in 24 the evening of September 5th -- September 6th? 25 A: It was -- can I -- kind of mixed up

1 on my days. We were all around the sandy parking lot 2 when, I'd say, approximately eight (8) tactical members 3 walked up to the fence line. 4 Q: So were you on the inside or the 5 outside of the Park? 6 A: The inside. 7 Q: There's a sandy parking lot on the 8 inside of the Park as well; isn't there? 9 A: Yeah, we were on -- we were on the 10 inside. 11 Q: You were on the inside? 12 A: Yeah. 13 Q: And in the parking area on the west 14 side of the fence line inside the Park? 15 A: Yeah, right by the turn -- turnstile. 16 Q: Yes. And what happened? 17 A: They walked up. There was nobody 18 really said anything. And this little short fellow there 19 he come over to the -- out from the back of the crowd of 20 the cops and singled -- singled Dudley right out. Told 21 him that he was going to be the first one to go. 22 Q: And did this just happen out of the 23 blue that this officer -- 24 A: Yeah. They -- 25 Q: -- came up to the fence --

1 A: They came out of -- they came out of 2 nowhere. Like, -- 3 Q: Did they -- did they say anything 4 before this police officer arrived? Were you -- did you 5 shout at the -- your group shout at the police officers? 6 A: Not that I can remember, no. 'Cause 7 we were all just standing around and they just come out 8 of -- like, they didn't drive up or anything, they walked 9 from somewhere. 10 Q: Yes? 11 A: And none of the other officers said 12 nothing, but just that one fellow did. 13 Q: And did he say anything else? Tell 14 us exactly what he said. 15 A: From what I remember it, he had told 16 Dudley to -- that he was going to be the first one (1) to 17 go. He was saying stuff like, welcome to Canada, trying 18 to call one (1) of us to the other side of the fence, 19 calling us on, like, for a fight. 20 Q: Yes? 21 A: And I believe it was Marlin Simon, he 22 picked up a handful of sand and threw it in his face. 23 Q: Yes? 24 A: And -- or as soon as after he done 25 that he grabbed some pepper spray, and he was trying to

1 pepper spray us. 2 Q: And what did your group do? 3 A: We just backed up and we watched 4 them, and they just took off. 5 Q: And can you describe again, you said 6 they were in tactical uniforms. What do you mean by 7 that? Can you describe what these police officers were 8 wearing? 9 A: They were like the grey jumpsuits, 10 but I think they were brown, brownish colour. 11 Q: Yes? 12 A: Fast caps (phonetic), boots, kind of 13 like the tactical army pants, I guess. 14 Q: Excuse me for a moment, Commissioner. 15 16 (BRIEF PAUSE) 17 18 COMMISSIONER SIDNEY LINDEN: You said you 19 wanted to adjourn around 10:30, Mr. Millar, it's past 20 that now. I don't want to interrupt you if you're right 21 in the middle of something. 22 MR. DERRY MILLAR: Yes. Maybe I could 23 just finish this. 24 COMMISSIONER SIDNEY LINDEN: Just finish 25 what you're on.

1 2 CONTINUED BY MR. DERRY MILLAR: 3 Q: Mr. Cottrelle, I'm going to -- these 4 photos don't come out very well, but I'm going to show 5 you a photo, and could you, and I'm going to ask you if 6 you could just take a look at these three (3) photographs 7 for a moment, of the police officers in uniform. 8 A: Where's their faces? 9 Q: And that's the second photograph. 10 And that's the third photograph. 11 MR. IAN ROLAND: Can Mr. Millar give us 12 some numbers on those? We don't even know these -- where 13 these come from. Are there document numbers? 14 MR. DERRY MILLAR: If Mr. Roland would 15 give me a second, I'll explain to Mr. Roland and everyone 16 else where they came from. 17 18 CONTINUED BY MR. DERRY MILLAR: 19 Q: These were photographs that were 20 provided by the OPP and I have not had the opportunity to 21 send them out to my friends, but they are identified 22 right now, simply by the number. 23 This photograph that's on the screen is 24 CU-035.JPG. The second photograph is CU-034.JPG, and the 25 third photograph is CU-038.JPG. And we will eventually

1 prove that these photographs, but I simply wanted the 2 witness, if he could just -- does he -- did he recognize 3 one of these three (3) uniforms? 4 A: I recognize the first one as the grey 5 uniform, was what the majority of the police were 6 wearing. 7 Q: And on the -- this incident that you 8 just described to us, you said that, I think you said 9 they were wearing a brown uniform? 10 A: Yeah. I thought they were brownish. 11 Brown colour. I may be wrong though. 12 Q: But for the majority of the -- the 13 majority of the police officers were wearing the uniform 14 that is identified as CU-038? 15 A: Yes. 16 MR. DERRY MILLAR: Thank you. That would 17 perhaps be a good place for a break. 18 COMMISSIONER SIDNEY LINDEN: That's fine. 19 Thank you very much. We'll have a short break now. 20 THE REGISTRAR: This Inquiry will recess 21 for fifteen (15) minutes. 22 23 --- Upon recessing at 10:40 a.m. 24 --- Upon resuming at 10:58 a.m. 25

1 THE REGISTRAR: This Inquiry is now 2 resumed. Please be seated. 3 COMMISSIONER SIDNEY LINDEN: Thank you. 4 5 CONTINUED BY MR. DERRY MILLAR: 6 Q: Now, you indicated that -- before the 7 break, that you heard something about an injunction? 8 A: Yes. 9 Q: And how did you hear about an 10 injunction? 11 A: I believe it was over the radio. 12 Q: And did you know what an injunction 13 was? 14 A: Not at the time. No. 15 Q: Did you have a discussion with 16 anybody about the injunction or what you heard on the 17 radio? 18 A: Well, what I heard on the radio was, 19 that the MNR and OPP were seeking a court injunction to 20 remove us from the Park. 21 Q: To remove you from the Park? 22 A: Yes. 23 Q: And you heard that on September 5th? 24 A: I believe so. 25 Q: Or it could have been September 6th?

1 A: Yeah. One of the two. 2 Q: One of the two. And the early part 3 of September 4th, 5th or 6th, was anyone hunting near the 4 Park -- in or around the Park? 5 A: No. 6 Q: And was it hunting season in 7 September 4th, 5th and 6th? 8 A: No. No. 9 Q: And after you heard about the 10 injunction, did you or others do anything in the Park? 11 A: No, not that I can remember. 12 Q: Did you take any steps -- were you -- 13 were you concerned that the Provincial Police might seek 14 to remove you from the Park? 15 A: Not myself, I wasn't worried about 16 it. 17 Q: You weren't worried about it? And 18 the -- after the incident with the police officers and 19 the picnic tables in the sandy parking lot that you told 20 us about; what did you do? 21 Can you -- what did you do? First of all, 22 excuse me, can you tell us about what time the incident 23 with the picnic tables and the police officers took 24 place? 25 A: I believe they were close to the same

1 timeframe. I knew it was -- I remember it was dark. 2 Q: But -- 3 A: So it would have been 9:30, ten 4 o'clock, maybe. 5 Q: So that the police officers -- what 6 I'm talking about is the police officers with respect to 7 the pushing the picnic tables up against the fence? 8 A: Yeah. It would -- would have been 9 about 9:30 maybe. 10 Q: About 9:30? It was dark? 11 A: Yeah. 12 Q: And the other incident with the 13 police officers along the fence line? 14 A: Yeah, it would have been about the 15 same timeframe, I think. 16 Q: About the same timeframe? And what 17 did you do after the incident after 9:30? Did you stay 18 at the Park on the evening of September 5th, go back to 19 the Army Camp? 20 A: After the incident with the police 21 pushing the picnic tables around there I stayed at my 22 mother and father's, Number 37, that evening. 23 Q: Back to the Army? 24 A: Yeah. 25 Q: And then what happened the next day,

1 September 6th? 2 A: The next morning my mother woke me 3 and she had told me that cops were trying to come back 4 and -- trying to come in through the Park. 5 Q: Yes. 6 A: I got in my car and I got down there 7 and everything was already done and gone with. The 8 fellow, Robert Isaac, was sitting down there and the 9 police came down with MNR trucks and trailers and loaded 10 up the picnic tables and had taken them somewhere. 11 Q: And the picnic tables, after the 12 incident with the police officers moving the picnic 13 tables, pushing them out of the sandy parking lot, did -- 14 were the picnic tables replaced in the parking -- sandy 15 parking lot? 16 A: No. 17 Q: No. 18 A: No. 19 Q: And we've heard evidence that they 20 were put in a circle in the sandy parking lot and that 21 circle was removed the next morning. 22 A: I -- I believe so. But after that 23 morning incident I don't think there was any more picnic 24 tables out there. 25 Q: Perhaps I'm -- my question is not as

1 clear as it could be. The picnic tables were moved 2 against the fence by the police officers on the evening 3 of September 5th? 4 A: Yeah. 5 Q: And then in the morning of September 6 6th, were there picnic tables in the sandy parking lot, 7 that you were aware of? 8 A: No. 9 Q: So you had not seen the picnic tables 10 being put back in the sandy parking lot on the evening of 11 September 5th, in a circle? 12 A: No. 13 Q: So, when you arrived on the morning, 14 your mother woke you on the morning of September 6th and 15 told you that police officers were trying to get into the 16 Park, and you went down to the Park? 17 A: Yes. 18 Q: And there were no police officers 19 along the fence line by the Park? 20 A: No. No. There was none down there. 21 Q: And who was down there? 22 A: I remember talking to Robert Isaac 23 and JT, I believe. 24 Q: And by JT you mean James Thomas 25 Cousins?

1 A: Yes. 2 Q: And so after that, what did you do? 3 A: Just hung out, I guess. We didn't do 4 nothing, just kind of sat around. 5 Q: And were you most of the day or -- in 6 the Park on September 6th? 7 A: Yes. 8 Q: And when were you supposed to go back 9 to school? 10 A: I believe it was the next day. 11 Q: On the 7th? 12 A: Yeah. 13 Q: Okay. And the -- on September 6, 14 were you back in the built-up area of the Army Camp? 15 A: Here and there. 16 Q: Just, can you sort of tell us what 17 you did that day? 18 A: I -- I really can't remember. I know 19 I was back and forth from the barracks, running errands, 20 grabbing firewood, stuff like that. 21 Q: And at some point did you gather 22 rocks and sticks and place them along the fence line? 23 A: I might have. 24